Music opinion/question of the week...

General music discussion.
Heston
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Heston » 15 Feb 2019, 12:52pm

Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:46pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:03pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 11:48am
It does raise the question of can we separate the artist from the art and should we even if we could?
Okay each to his own on this but I have no problem liking music made some bloody terrible people. Gary Glitter is a classic example to me an absolute disgrace of a human being. However I'm not going into denial to say I don't enjoy those classic 70s singles. Besides he was the vocalists and there was a whole band of musicians who made those songs why should they suffer from people boycotting the sales of stuff they worked hard on. I'm certain they have famillies to feed as well.

Look at all the debauchery that has gone on in the name of Rock 'n' Roll. So no more Chuck Berry/Jerry Lee Lewis/Led Zeppelin/Sex Pistols the list of greats goes on forever.
This is generally my opinion but there are some whose crimes are so heinous that I don't think they should ever be played on tv or radio. Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter spring to mind.
I'm not saying you are wrong but where do you draw a line in the sand.? There must be hundreds probably thousands of songs you like by people who have done some awful crimes. ;)
My line in the sand is GG and the Lost Prophets. GG wasn't just done for the stuff on his computer, he is currently serving a very long sentence for abusing children.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by JennyB » 15 Feb 2019, 1:03pm

Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:46pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:03pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 11:48am
It does raise the question of can we separate the artist from the art and should we even if we could?
Okay each to his own on this but I have no problem liking music made some bloody terrible people. Gary Glitter is a classic example to me an absolute disgrace of a human being. However I'm not going into denial to say I don't enjoy those classic 70s singles. Besides he was the vocalists and there was a whole band of musicians who made those songs why should they suffer from people boycotting the sales of stuff they worked hard on. I'm certain they have famillies to feed as well.

Look at all the debauchery that has gone on in the name of Rock 'n' Roll. So no more Chuck Berry/Jerry Lee Lewis/Led Zeppelin/Sex Pistols the list of greats goes on forever.
This is generally my opinion but there are some whose crimes are so heinous that I don't think they should ever be played on tv or radio. Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter spring to mind.
I'm not saying you are wrong but where do you draw a line in the sand.? There must be hundreds probably thousands of songs you like by people who have done some awful crimes. ;)
My line in the sand is GG and the Lost Prophets. GG wasn't just done for the stuff on his computer, he is currently serving a very long sentence for abusing children.
Pardon my ignorance - who are Lost Prophets and what did they do?
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 1:08pm

Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:46pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:03pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 11:48am
It does raise the question of can we separate the artist from the art and should we even if we could?
Okay each to his own on this but I have no problem liking music made some bloody terrible people. Gary Glitter is a classic example to me an absolute disgrace of a human being. However I'm not going into denial to say I don't enjoy those classic 70s singles. Besides he was the vocalists and there was a whole band of musicians who made those songs why should they suffer from people boycotting the sales of stuff they worked hard on. I'm certain they have famillies to feed as well.

Look at all the debauchery that has gone on in the name of Rock 'n' Roll. So no more Chuck Berry/Jerry Lee Lewis/Led Zeppelin/Sex Pistols the list of greats goes on forever.
This is generally my opinion but there are some whose crimes are so heinous that I don't think they should ever be played on tv or radio. Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter spring to mind.
I'm not saying you are wrong but where do you draw a line in the sand.? There must be hundreds probably thousands of songs you like by people who have done some awful crimes. ;)
My line in the sand is GG and the Lost Prophets. GG wasn't just done for the stuff on his computer, he is currently serving a very long sentence for abusing children.
Not exactly what I was getting at mate. I've already mentioned what I think about Glitter and yep he is a despicable character same for the guy from the Lost Prophets. But I've read stories of Led Zeppelin with underage girls etc. I'm not comparing crimes to those of GG but more in reference to the current Ryan Adam story. Wasn't Afrika Bambatta accused of some terrible abuse a while back. These are just the stories of what we get to hear about and possibly just the tip of the iceberg.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 1:09pm

JennyB wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 1:03pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:46pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:03pm


Okay each to his own on this but I have no problem liking music made some bloody terrible people. Gary Glitter is a classic example to me an absolute disgrace of a human being. However I'm not going into denial to say I don't enjoy those classic 70s singles. Besides he was the vocalists and there was a whole band of musicians who made those songs why should they suffer from people boycotting the sales of stuff they worked hard on. I'm certain they have famillies to feed as well.

Look at all the debauchery that has gone on in the name of Rock 'n' Roll. So no more Chuck Berry/Jerry Lee Lewis/Led Zeppelin/Sex Pistols the list of greats goes on forever.
This is generally my opinion but there are some whose crimes are so heinous that I don't think they should ever be played on tv or radio. Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter spring to mind.
I'm not saying you are wrong but where do you draw a line in the sand.? There must be hundreds probably thousands of songs you like by people who have done some awful crimes. ;)
My line in the sand is GG and the Lost Prophets. GG wasn't just done for the stuff on his computer, he is currently serving a very long sentence for abusing children.
Pardon my ignorance - who are Lost Prophets and what did they do?
Lead singer was done for paedophilia.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by JennyB » 15 Feb 2019, 1:11pm

Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 1:09pm
JennyB wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 1:03pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:46pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:09pm


This is generally my opinion but there are some whose crimes are so heinous that I don't think they should ever be played on tv or radio. Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter spring to mind.
I'm not saying you are wrong but where do you draw a line in the sand.? There must be hundreds probably thousands of songs you like by people who have done some awful crimes. ;)
My line in the sand is GG and the Lost Prophets. GG wasn't just done for the stuff on his computer, he is currently serving a very long sentence for abusing children.
Pardon my ignorance - who are Lost Prophets and what did they do?
Lead singer was done for paedophilia.
Ugh.
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Don't talk shop.

Heston
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Heston » 15 Feb 2019, 1:13pm

Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 1:08pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:46pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:03pm


Okay each to his own on this but I have no problem liking music made some bloody terrible people. Gary Glitter is a classic example to me an absolute disgrace of a human being. However I'm not going into denial to say I don't enjoy those classic 70s singles. Besides he was the vocalists and there was a whole band of musicians who made those songs why should they suffer from people boycotting the sales of stuff they worked hard on. I'm certain they have famillies to feed as well.

Look at all the debauchery that has gone on in the name of Rock 'n' Roll. So no more Chuck Berry/Jerry Lee Lewis/Led Zeppelin/Sex Pistols the list of greats goes on forever.
This is generally my opinion but there are some whose crimes are so heinous that I don't think they should ever be played on tv or radio. Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter spring to mind.
I'm not saying you are wrong but where do you draw a line in the sand.? There must be hundreds probably thousands of songs you like by people who have done some awful crimes. ;)
My line in the sand is GG and the Lost Prophets. GG wasn't just done for the stuff on his computer, he is currently serving a very long sentence for abusing children.
Not exactly what I was getting at mate. I've already mentioned what I think about Glitter and yep he is a despicable character same for the guy from the Lost Prophets. But I've read stories of Led Zeppelin with underage girls etc. I'm not comparing crimes to those of GG but more in reference to the current Ryan Adam story. Wasn't Afrika Bambatta accused of some terrible abuse a while back. These are just the stories of what we get to hear about and possibly just the tip of the iceberg.
I just put what GG and that guy from the Lost Prophets did into a different bracket to what Page et al did. Not to trivialize what the latter did but the former are on a way more serious level.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 1:27pm

Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 1:13pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 1:08pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:46pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 12:09pm


This is generally my opinion but there are some whose crimes are so heinous that I don't think they should ever be played on tv or radio. Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter spring to mind.
I'm not saying you are wrong but where do you draw a line in the sand.? There must be hundreds probably thousands of songs you like by people who have done some awful crimes. ;)
My line in the sand is GG and the Lost Prophets. GG wasn't just done for the stuff on his computer, he is currently serving a very long sentence for abusing children.
Not exactly what I was getting at mate. I've already mentioned what I think about Glitter and yep he is a despicable character same for the guy from the Lost Prophets. But I've read stories of Led Zeppelin with underage girls etc. I'm not comparing crimes to those of GG but more in reference to the current Ryan Adam story. Wasn't Afrika Bambatta accused of some terrible abuse a while back. These are just the stories of what we get to hear about and possibly just the tip of the iceberg.
I just put what GG and that guy from the Lost Prophets did into a different bracket to what Page et al did. Not to trivialize what the latter did but the former are on a way more serious level.
Yes of course that is never in any dispute. But there are other crimes that are of a serious nature. The music GG made was from years before he was sentenced for his evil acts unlike the LP guy. I wonder if when any if GG music is played on the radio he still gets royalties?

Edit: just read he does still get royalties from his music. Shame i was hoping the courts would've stopped him getting any further payments.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid » 15 Feb 2019, 2:02pm

It's a difficult thing because as Marky pointed out - where does one draw the line? How many musicians have done bad things? Lots of them. John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Elvis had a thing for adolescent girls. Chuck Berry, well - we know what Chuck did. The list goes on and on. I was never a big GG fan - so it's easy for me to write him off and say I'll never listen to his music again. I can't say that about Ryan Adams because I've always loved his music and I can't easily disconnect from it. If I'm being honest with myself - yes - I will listen to his music again. I will enjoy his music again. I understand what he's been accused of isn't in the same league as GG or the guy from Lost Prophets. It's creepy and it might have even been illegal (he's being investigated by the FBI) - but it's still icky and definitely not anything I'd condone - but I can't deny I like the music and if I decide to continue to listen to him - I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that he's a creep with the fact that he makes great music I like listening to.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 2:20pm

WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:02pm
It's a difficult thing because as Marky pointed out - where does one draw the line? How many musicians have done bad things? Lots of them. John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Elvis had a thing for adolescent girls. Chuck Berry, well - we know what Chuck did. The list goes on and on. I was never a big GG fan - so it's easy for me to write him off and say I'll never listen to his music again. I can't say that about Ryan Adams because I've always loved his music and I can't easily disconnect from it. If I'm being honest with myself - yes - I will listen to his music again. I will enjoy his music again. I understand what he's been accused of isn't in the same league as GG or the guy from Lost Prophets. It's creepy and it might have even been illegal (he's being investigated by the FBI) - but it's still icky and definitely not anything I'd condone - but I can't deny I like the music and if I decide to continue to listen to him - I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that he's a creep with the fact that he makes great music I like listening to.
Yep same here really. With GG and LP front man being convicted paedophiles means I don't want them to get any more royalties. But growing up I liked those GG records and it would be wrong for me to pretend differently now.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Heston » 15 Feb 2019, 2:37pm

WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:02pm
It's a difficult thing because as Marky pointed out - where does one draw the line? How many musicians have done bad things? Lots of them. John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Elvis had a thing for adolescent girls. Chuck Berry, well - we know what Chuck did. The list goes on and on. I was never a big GG fan - so it's easy for me to write him off and say I'll never listen to his music again. I can't say that about Ryan Adams because I've always loved his music and I can't easily disconnect from it. If I'm being honest with myself - yes - I will listen to his music again. I will enjoy his music again. I understand what he's been accused of isn't in the same league as GG or the guy from Lost Prophets. It's creepy and it might have even been illegal (he's being investigated by the FBI) - but it's still icky and definitely not anything I'd condone - but I can't deny I like the music and if I decide to continue to listen to him - I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that he's a creep with the fact that he makes great music I like listening to.
Agreed with most of that. I'm just trying to answer the "where does one draw the line" question. I know lots of rock stars had affairs with young groupies and lots of them beat on their wives etc, but the GG and Lost Prophet guy cases are where I have to say, no, I would not willingly listen to that, and would hope radio and tv controllers would feel the same. I do like some of GG's songs but would never play them now, I just can't separate the seriousness of the crime from the music.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 3:23pm

Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:37pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:02pm
It's a difficult thing because as Marky pointed out - where does one draw the line? How many musicians have done bad things? Lots of them. John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Elvis had a thing for adolescent girls. Chuck Berry, well - we know what Chuck did. The list goes on and on. I was never a big GG fan - so it's easy for me to write him off and say I'll never listen to his music again. I can't say that about Ryan Adams because I've always loved his music and I can't easily disconnect from it. If I'm being honest with myself - yes - I will listen to his music again. I will enjoy his music again. I understand what he's been accused of isn't in the same league as GG or the guy from Lost Prophets. It's creepy and it might have even been illegal (he's being investigated by the FBI) - but it's still icky and definitely not anything I'd condone - but I can't deny I like the music and if I decide to continue to listen to him - I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that he's a creep with the fact that he makes great music I like listening to.
Agreed with most of that. I'm just trying to answer the "where does one draw the line" question. I know lots of rock stars had affairs with young groupies and lots of them beat on their wives etc, but the GG and Lost Prophet guy cases are where I have to say, no, I would not willingly listen to that, and would hope radio and tv controllers would feel the same. I do like some of GG's songs but would never play them now, I just can't separate the seriousness of the crime from the music.
No more listening to Judas Priest for you then.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Heston » 15 Feb 2019, 3:48pm

Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 3:23pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:37pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:02pm
It's a difficult thing because as Marky pointed out - where does one draw the line? How many musicians have done bad things? Lots of them. John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Elvis had a thing for adolescent girls. Chuck Berry, well - we know what Chuck did. The list goes on and on. I was never a big GG fan - so it's easy for me to write him off and say I'll never listen to his music again. I can't say that about Ryan Adams because I've always loved his music and I can't easily disconnect from it. If I'm being honest with myself - yes - I will listen to his music again. I will enjoy his music again. I understand what he's been accused of isn't in the same league as GG or the guy from Lost Prophets. It's creepy and it might have even been illegal (he's being investigated by the FBI) - but it's still icky and definitely not anything I'd condone - but I can't deny I like the music and if I decide to continue to listen to him - I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that he's a creep with the fact that he makes great music I like listening to.
Agreed with most of that. I'm just trying to answer the "where does one draw the line" question. I know lots of rock stars had affairs with young groupies and lots of them beat on their wives etc, but the GG and Lost Prophet guy cases are where I have to say, no, I would not willingly listen to that, and would hope radio and tv controllers would feel the same. I do like some of GG's songs but would never play them now, I just can't separate the seriousness of the crime from the music.
No more listening to Judas Priest for you then.
Drummers don't count, they aren't musicians. ;)
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 3:50pm

Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 3:48pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 3:23pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:37pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:02pm
It's a difficult thing because as Marky pointed out - where does one draw the line? How many musicians have done bad things? Lots of them. John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Elvis had a thing for adolescent girls. Chuck Berry, well - we know what Chuck did. The list goes on and on. I was never a big GG fan - so it's easy for me to write him off and say I'll never listen to his music again. I can't say that about Ryan Adams because I've always loved his music and I can't easily disconnect from it. If I'm being honest with myself - yes - I will listen to his music again. I will enjoy his music again. I understand what he's been accused of isn't in the same league as GG or the guy from Lost Prophets. It's creepy and it might have even been illegal (he's being investigated by the FBI) - but it's still icky and definitely not anything I'd condone - but I can't deny I like the music and if I decide to continue to listen to him - I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that he's a creep with the fact that he makes great music I like listening to.
Agreed with most of that. I'm just trying to answer the "where does one draw the line" question. I know lots of rock stars had affairs with young groupies and lots of them beat on their wives etc, but the GG and Lost Prophet guy cases are where I have to say, no, I would not willingly listen to that, and would hope radio and tv controllers would feel the same. I do like some of GG's songs but would never play them now, I just can't separate the seriousness of the crime from the music.
No more listening to Judas Priest for you then.
Drummers don't count, they aren't musicians. ;)
I can't beat that.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid » 15 Feb 2019, 3:55pm

Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 3:50pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 3:48pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 3:23pm
Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:37pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 2:02pm
It's a difficult thing because as Marky pointed out - where does one draw the line? How many musicians have done bad things? Lots of them. John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Elvis had a thing for adolescent girls. Chuck Berry, well - we know what Chuck did. The list goes on and on. I was never a big GG fan - so it's easy for me to write him off and say I'll never listen to his music again. I can't say that about Ryan Adams because I've always loved his music and I can't easily disconnect from it. If I'm being honest with myself - yes - I will listen to his music again. I will enjoy his music again. I understand what he's been accused of isn't in the same league as GG or the guy from Lost Prophets. It's creepy and it might have even been illegal (he's being investigated by the FBI) - but it's still icky and definitely not anything I'd condone - but I can't deny I like the music and if I decide to continue to listen to him - I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that he's a creep with the fact that he makes great music I like listening to.
Agreed with most of that. I'm just trying to answer the "where does one draw the line" question. I know lots of rock stars had affairs with young groupies and lots of them beat on their wives etc, but the GG and Lost Prophet guy cases are where I have to say, no, I would not willingly listen to that, and would hope radio and tv controllers would feel the same. I do like some of GG's songs but would never play them now, I just can't separate the seriousness of the crime from the music.
No more listening to Judas Priest for you then.
Drummers don't count, they aren't musicians. ;)
I can't beat that.
I believe Tony Iommi had done an album with Dave Holland on drums - but later had the drum tracks re-recorded as he didn't want a convicted sex offender playing on the album.

Speaking of GG - anyone ever seen "The Execution of Gary Glitter"?
"If they believed in a place called Kokomo, then so did I." - Michael Edward Love

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by 101Walterton » 15 Feb 2019, 4:39pm

Very interesting debate with no right or wrong answers. My personal view is similar to Heston’s in that the crimes committed by GG and LP are so serious I cannot seperate them from the person / music.
Marky you raise an interesting point about punishing the innocent members of a band through lack of royalties but as we know royalties funded GG raping children through SE Asia for years and probably bought his freedom from prosecution allowing him to continue his crimes.

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