The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Rat Patrol » 03 Apr 2018, 4:12pm

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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Jimmy Jazz » 05 Apr 2018, 2:12pm

You have to pity a guy who thinks Steven Van Zandt showing up somewhere is too good to be true.

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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Dr. Medulla » 05 Apr 2018, 2:18pm

Jimmy Jazz wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 2:12pm
You have to pity a guy who thinks Steven Van Zandt showing up somewhere is too good to be true.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by WestwayKid » 11 Apr 2018, 6:20pm

Jimmy Jazz wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 2:12pm
You have to pity a guy who thinks Steven Van Zandt showing up somewhere is too good to be true.
This whole article is bizarre. I kind of pity everyone involved.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by eumaas » 24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm

I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Apr 2018, 12:46pm

eumaas wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm
I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
As talented a musician and songwriter as Paul Simon is, the prevalence of stories about him being a colossal prick is pretty overwhelming.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Flex » 24 Apr 2018, 4:12pm

eumaas wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm
I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
Super fascinating. I admittedly didn't know Graceland was at least partly recorded in S. Africa at that time.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by matedog » 24 Apr 2018, 6:34pm

eumaas wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm
I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I don't really understand how a "cultural boycott" works. It seems like it would have an adverse effect on black South Africans and that Graceland not only paid the performers (some even got songwriting credits), but it helped expose that culture to a larger audience (via a watered down white performer, sure, but still). I don't see how it perpetuated or exploited apartheid.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Apr 2018, 6:44pm

matedog wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 6:34pm
eumaas wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm
I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I don't really understand how a "cultural boycott" works. It seems like it would have an adverse effect on black South Africans and that Graceland not only paid the performers (some even got songwriting credits), but it helped expose that culture to a larger audience (via a watered down white performer, sure, but still). I don't see how it perpetuated or exploited apartheid.
That was the nut of the whole thing. It bound up opposition to a state system of oppression with everything within that state. It was well meaning but poorly laid out so that the boycott hurt the people it was meant to help.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by matedog » 25 Apr 2018, 12:27am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 6:44pm
matedog wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 6:34pm
eumaas wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm
I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I don't really understand how a "cultural boycott" works. It seems like it would have an adverse effect on black South Africans and that Graceland not only paid the performers (some even got songwriting credits), but it helped expose that culture to a larger audience (via a watered down white performer, sure, but still). I don't see how it perpetuated or exploited apartheid.
That was the nut of the whole thing. It bound up opposition to a state system of oppression with everything within that state. It was well meaning but poorly laid out so that the boycott hurt the people it was meant to help.
So Paul Simon was right and SVZ was wrong?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Low Down Low » 25 Apr 2018, 3:39am

I’ve always had some sympathy for Simon on this issue but at the same time have to ask myself whether I’d feel that way if Graceland wasn’t such a beautiful and remarkable record. It May well have been fundamentally wrong, for all of Simons obviously good intentions, but the thing is I can’t see any material evidence of what harm it did while the good that came out of it is much easier to quantify. That’s the major dilemma about it I feel.

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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Dr. Medulla » 25 Apr 2018, 6:21am

matedog wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 12:27am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 6:44pm
matedog wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 6:34pm
eumaas wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm
I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I don't really understand how a "cultural boycott" works. It seems like it would have an adverse effect on black South Africans and that Graceland not only paid the performers (some even got songwriting credits), but it helped expose that culture to a larger audience (via a watered down white performer, sure, but still). I don't see how it perpetuated or exploited apartheid.
That was the nut of the whole thing. It bound up opposition to a state system of oppression with everything within that state. It was well meaning but poorly laid out so that the boycott hurt the people it was meant to help.
So Paul Simon was right and SVZ was wrong?
In my understanding of things, yeah. But, complicating things, I've read claims by musicians that Simon was a credit hog on that album. Los Lobos played on one song and said they wrote the music, but Simon claimed full credit, denying them royalties.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Silent Majority » 25 Apr 2018, 6:34am

Low Down Low wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 3:39am
I’ve always had some sympathy for Simon on this issue but at the same time have to ask myself whether I’d feel that way if Graceland wasn’t such a beautiful and remarkable record. It May well have been fundamentally wrong, for all of Simons obviously good intentions, but the thing is I can’t see any material evidence of what harm it did while the good that came out of it is much easier to quantify. That’s the major dilemma about it I feel.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Silent Majority » 25 Apr 2018, 6:39am

matedog wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 12:27am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 6:44pm
matedog wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 6:34pm
eumaas wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 12:36pm
I thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I don't really understand how a "cultural boycott" works. It seems like it would have an adverse effect on black South Africans and that Graceland not only paid the performers (some even got songwriting credits), but it helped expose that culture to a larger audience (via a watered down white performer, sure, but still). I don't see how it perpetuated or exploited apartheid.
That was the nut of the whole thing. It bound up opposition to a state system of oppression with everything within that state. It was well meaning but poorly laid out so that the boycott hurt the people it was meant to help.
So Paul Simon was right and SVZ was wrong?
Both were wrong, but Van Zandt was less wrong and involved in the ground, took pains to educate himself, and comes out of the situation with much more credibility. I really respect Little Stevie.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce

Post by Low Down Low » 25 Apr 2018, 7:34am

Silent Majority wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 6:34am
Low Down Low wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 3:39am
I’ve always had some sympathy for Simon on this issue but at the same time have to ask myself whether I’d feel that way if Graceland wasn’t such a beautiful and remarkable record. It May well have been fundamentally wrong, for all of Simons obviously good intentions, but the thing is I can’t see any material evidence of what harm it did while the good that came out of it is much easier to quantify. That’s the major dilemma about it I feel.
Art Garfunkel's Never End Apartheid was only well received in very specialist quarters.
Art Garfunkel actually wrote some songs? Must check that out.

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