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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 8:18am
by Dr. Medulla
Silent Majority wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 6:34am
Low Down Low wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 3:39am
I’ve always had some sympathy for Simon on this issue but at the same time have to ask myself whether I’d feel that way if Graceland wasn’t such a beautiful and remarkable record. It May well have been fundamentally wrong, for all of Simons obviously good intentions, but the thing is I can’t see any material evidence of what harm it did while the good that came out of it is much easier to quantify. That’s the major dilemma about it I feel.
Art Garfunkel's
Never End Apartheid was only well received in very specialist quarters.
His cover of “Biko,” where he just laughs maniacally, was simultaneously in poor taste and high concept.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 9:27am
by eumaas
Did we miss the part where Paul Simon said they were all commies?
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 9:31am
by Dr. Medulla
eumaas wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 9:27am
Did we miss the part where Paul Simon said they were all commies?
My initial reply was about that, but I should have been clearer. One thing that's odd about Simon's political antenna and friendship with Kissinger is that Simon and Garfunkel had a song called "Cuba Si, Nixon No," and that it was Garfunkel who refused to sing on it.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 10:02am
by matedog
Silent Majority wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 6:39am
matedog wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 12:27am
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Apr 2018, 6:44pm
matedog wrote: ↑24 Apr 2018, 6:34pm
I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I don't really understand how a "cultural boycott" works. It seems like it would have an adverse effect on black South Africans and that Graceland not only paid the performers (some even got songwriting credits), but it helped expose that culture to a larger audience (via a watered down white performer, sure, but still). I don't see how it perpetuated or exploited apartheid.
That was the nut of the whole thing. It bound up opposition to a state system of oppression with everything within that state. It was well meaning but poorly laid out so that the boycott hurt the people it was meant to help.
So Paul Simon was right and SVZ was wrong?
Both were wrong, but Van Zandt was less wrong and involved in the ground, took pains to educate himself, and comes out of the situation with much more credibility. I really respect Little Stevie.
I don't disagree that SVZ came across a lot better in his version of things, I just don't really understand the idea of a cultural boycott and I don't see how Graceland did anything to hurt the cause.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 10:49am
by Flex
matedog wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 10:02am
I don't disagree that SVZ came across a lot better in his version of things, I just don't really understand the idea of a cultural boycott and I don't see how Graceland did anything to hurt the cause.
Without deeply litigating the specific boycott here (I don't feel educated enough to argue in detail about it), this is basically how collective action works. You get everyone to do the same thing and stigmatize individual breakaways because, well, enough people decide "my own actions don't make a difference" and you've eroded the effectiveness of the boycott, strike, etc.
I will, tentatively, say that my understanding is the various boycotts of S. Africa enjoyed popular support in South Africa from the majority black population, so I don't necessarily view it in the same bucket of some of the more ill-conceived boycotts that end up being mostly harmful to the marginalized people they're trying to help. Happy to be corrected by folks who know more, however.
Addendum: Also, as eumaas points out, Paul Simon's anti-communist talk shows where his head was really at in all this.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 12:08pm
by Silent Majority
Flex wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 10:49am
matedog wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 10:02am
I don't disagree that SVZ came across a lot better in his version of things, I just don't really understand the idea of a cultural boycott and I don't see how Graceland did anything to hurt the cause.
Without deeply litigating the specific boycott here (I don't feel educated enough to argue in detail about it), this is basically how collective action works. You get everyone to do the same thing and stigmatize individual breakaways because, well, enough people decide "my own actions don't make a difference" and you've eroded the effectiveness of the boycott, strike, etc.
I will, tentatively, say that my understanding is the various boycotts of S. Africa enjoyed popular support in South Africa from the majority black population, so I don't necessarily view it in the same bucket of some of the more ill-conceived boycotts that end up being mostly harmful to the marginalized people they're trying to help. Happy to be corrected by folks who know more, however.
Addendum: Also, as eumaas points out, Paul Simon's anti-communist talk shows where his head was really at in all this.
how can a wealthy white guy like Simon look at the struggle for liberation in Soweto and get overly concerned about the USSR in the eighties? Unforgivably blinkered.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 21 May 2018, 9:17am
by Wolter
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 21 May 2018, 9:34am
by JennyB
John Mellencamp's Top Five:
1. Hurt's So Good (When I'm Whippin' Slaves)
2. Colored Houses
3. I Was Born in a Small Town with a Large Klan Prescence
4. Get a Leg Up, Boy
5. I Need a Lover (Who Won't be a Negro)
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 21 May 2018, 10:37am
by Flex
JennyB wrote: ↑21 May 2018, 9:34am
3. I Was Born in a Small Town with a Large Klan Prescence
extremely lol
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 21 May 2018, 6:16pm
by gkbill
Flex wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 10:49am
matedog wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 10:02am
I don't disagree that SVZ came across a lot better in his version of things, I just don't really understand the idea of a cultural boycott and I don't see how Graceland did anything to hurt the cause.
Without deeply litigating the specific boycott here (I don't feel educated enough to argue in detail about it), this is basically how collective action works. You get everyone to do the same thing and stigmatize individual breakaways because, well, enough people decide "my own actions don't make a difference" and you've eroded the effectiveness of the boycott, strike, etc.
I will, tentatively, say that my understanding is the various boycotts of S. Africa enjoyed popular support in South Africa from the majority black population, so I don't necessarily view it in the same bucket of some of the more ill-conceived boycotts that end up being mostly harmful to the marginalized people they're trying to help. Happy to be corrected by folks who know more, however.
Addendum: Also, as eumaas points out, Paul Simon's anti-communist talk shows where his head was really at in all this.
Hello,
I can only speak for my wife who grew up under apartheid. Her family was relocated from Soweto to just outside Polokwane (the former Pietersburg). The feelings she expressed was an appreciation for South African music getting out to the world (as Azanians are tremendously proud people). I think her family felt it wasn't the most effective tactic but they appreciated the effort in terms of raising awareness. A political measure may have been more effective in terms of immediacy but how many would have learned anything about South Africa because of it? I'm cautious to speak on her behalf because I've learned anyone who has not experienced apartheid cannot truly understand - be careful as most would resent someone "understanding" how terrible it was.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 21 May 2018, 7:18pm
by revbob
This is not a thread I normally look at but because of this it was so worth it. Especially that last one.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 19 Jul 2018, 10:13am
by Rat Patrol
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... ut-701084/
Physicists' quest for a schlock gravitational singularity hits a new breakthrough.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 19 Jul 2018, 4:35pm
by revbob
To make matters worse
Joel also recently welcomed surprise guests Foreigner’s Lou Gramm and Mick Jones onstage to perform “Urgent” and “Cold as Ice.”
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 19 Jul 2018, 4:40pm
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 4:35pm
To make matters worse
Joel also recently welcomed surprise guests Foreigner’s Lou Gramm and Mick Jones onstage to perform “Urgent” and “Cold as Ice.”
Hey, Dante, we got a new circle to add to the Inferno and this one's a doozy.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Posted: 19 Jul 2018, 5:39pm
by revbob
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 4:40pm
revbob wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 4:35pm
To make matters worse
Joel also recently welcomed surprise guests Foreigner’s Lou Gramm and Mick Jones onstage to perform “Urgent” and “Cold as Ice.”
Hey, Dante, we got a new circle to add to the Inferno and this one's a doozy.
You know hardly a person in that crowd wasn't eating that up.