Biggest musical twat, VOTE NOW!

[Wolter]

so that you're intended to look at all people from that raise as less than you.

Rock Against Raisism.

[Dr. Medulla]

so that you're intended to look at all people from that raise as less than you.

Rock Against Raisism.

Fucking homophonic problems …

[Marky Dread]

Difficult for me to say and maybe the term "genuine racist" was not very clever on my part. Here's an example my mum is not racist however when she see's a black person she still to this day refers to them as "coloured" as that was acceptable to her generation. Even after a thousand arguments with her where I say mum the term is "black" those people are proud to be black it is not offensive to use that term.

Nah, that stuff isn't as important to all but the most hyper-sensitive, I'd say. Assuming people from different races, ethnicities, etc look to be sociable, we understand context. If your mother doesn't have any malice in her voice or the rest of she's saying, a black person should in all likelihood let it pass as "that's just her generation." Which doesn't make it ideal, of course, just that it's not that big of an issue—unless people are looking to pick a fight.

The following lyrics are from Morrissey's song "Irish Blood, English Heart".

I've been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling
Shameful, racist or partial.

To me he is longing to be proud to say he is an Englishman and wants to take back the flag from those who wish it to symbolise something else.

But when taken in the context of all the ugly things he has said about other peoples, it's hard to interpret that so charitably. One can easily spin it as he's nostalgic for a time when being English (nationalistically so) was unambiguous and that you could say whatever you wanted about, say, Indians without being called a racist and made to feel ashamed.

Of course this is true.

But this works both ways a classic example is my local council office who during the last World Cup Football tournament banned the English employees from displaying Union Jacks and the St. Georges flag in fear that it would upset those employees that were non English. The head of my local council who took this decision is an Asian.

Now all this does is create further hatred. Is it wrong to be proud of your national flag? (I personally don't subscribe) but understand those who feel they have a right.

[Dr. Medulla]

But this works both ways a classic example is my local council office who during the last World Cup Football tournament banned the English employees from displaying Union Jacks and the St. Georges flag in fear that it would upset those employees that were non English. The head of my local council who took this decision is an Asian.

Now all this does is create further hatred. Is it wrong to be proud of your national flag? (I personally don't subscribe) but understand those who feel they have a right.

Definitely. It comes from the ambiguity of what a flag represents. On the surface it's about unity, but deeper down that unity is built on who it doesn't include. Sure, it means not the French, Dutch, or Germans, but does it also mean not those whose parents or grandparents come from former colonies? Depends on the person. It's a difficult thing and one where banning or endorsing a flag necessarily creates ill will and empowers a narrow mindset on one side or the other.

[Marky Dread]

But this works both ways a classic example is my local council office who during the last World Cup Football tournament banned the English employees from displaying Union Jacks and the St. Georges flag in fear that it would upset those employees that were non English. The head of my local council who took this decision is an Asian.

Now all this does is create further hatred. Is it wrong to be proud of your national flag? (I personally don't subscribe) but understand those who feel they have a right.

Definitely. It comes from the ambiguity of what a flag represents. On the surface it's about unity, but deeper down that unity is built on who it doesn't include. Sure, it means not the French, Dutch, or Germans, but does it also mean not those whose parents or grandparents come from former colonies? Depends on the person. It's a difficult thing and one where banning or endorsing a flag necessarily creates ill will and empowers a narrow mindset on one side or the other.

Yes I see your point however the English national football team contains black and white players some whose parents do indeed come from former colonies. I should also point out that only the English were stopped displaying their flag. The Other nations were not stopped as their flags were not seen as inflamatory. You see in England the flag has now become a symbol for the National Front, British Movement, and the BNP so there are those who want it back.

[Marky Dread]

Beware of flag wavers.



Sorry Wolt the devil made me do it.

[Dr. Medulla]

Yes I see your point however the English national football team contains black and white players some whose parents do indeed come from former colonies.

Right, but the flag is also about the supporters, which is where that plurality of interpretations about what it represents comes into play.

I should also point out that only the English were stopped displaying their flag. The Other nations were not stopped as their flags were not seen as inflamatory. You see in England the flag has now become a symbol for the National Front, British Movement, and the BNP so there are those who want it back.

Yup—everyone wants to claim to speak for the "real" whole. It's why I hate nationalism—it comes under the guise of unity, but it's really about hierarchical divisions and exclusions.

[Wolter]

Well, to be fair, I am horribly racist.

[Marky Dread]

Yes I see your point however the English national football team contains black and white players some whose parents do indeed come from former colonies.

Right, but the flag is also about the supporters, which is where that plurality of interpretations about what it represents comes into play.

I should also point out that only the English were stopped displaying their flag. The Other nations were not stopped as their flags were not seen as inflamatory. You see in England the flag has now become a symbol for the National Front, British Movement, and the BNP so there are those who want it back.

Yup—everyone wants to claim to speak for the "real" whole. It's why I hate nationalism—it comes under the guise of unity, but it's really about hierarchical divisions and exclusions.

There has been and always will be an element in English football where the flag represent something other than sport which is sad for the rest who just want to show their support for their team. Healthy competion where people enjoy beating other nations.

[Marky Dread]

Well, to be fair, I am horribly racist.

I reckon I could out run you.

[Dr. Medulla]

This just in—Morrissey: Not a racist
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/ju ... y-from-nme

*cough*

[JennyB]

This just in—Morrissey: Not a racist
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/ju ... y-from-nme

*cough*

So does this mean I can finally express my true feelings about how Canadians are subhuman and not be considered racist? Sweet.

[Dr. Medulla]

This just in—Morrissey: Not a racist
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/ju ... y-from-nme

*cough*

So does this mean I can finally express my true feelings about how Canadians are subhuman and not be considered racist? Sweet.

[JennyB]

Wait, wait, Doc. Not you. You're one of the good ones. I just wish your fellow countrymen didn't have to be so loud about their Canadian-ness. Also, why are you people so polite? Yes, I said it. You people. And God forbid any of you have children.

[Dr. Medulla]

Wait, wait, Doc. Not you. You're one of the good ones. I just wish your fellow countrymen didn't have to be so loud about their Canadian-ness. Also, why are you people so polite? Yes, I said it. You people. And God forbid any of you have children.

Ha! Take that, Inder!