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Dr. Medulla
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Re: movies

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:45pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:25pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:10pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:04pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 3:50pm
Speaking of Dunkirk (and Nolan), does this ring true for anyone? https://thebaffler.com/the-immediate-ex ... /tory-porn
I read that piece awhile back and meant to ask people about it. I haven't seen many of his films, so I have no idea about the merit of the critique.
I've seen them all, and maybe I'm dense, but I just don't think of movies that way. Nothing of this nature particularly jumped out at me.
My immediate thought at the time of reading it was that suspicion or hostility to "the people" isn't exclusive to conservatives. The left has, since mid-century, cultivated a deep suspicion of the masses, as people who are either potential reactionary monsters or broken and in need of government mending. I've got a lot of leftist friends who don't trust the average chump. So that is a pretty selective or blinkered assessment.
Sure, but I'm undecided on whether that means that Nolan actually thinks that or if it just happens to be a feature of some of his films. Movies aren't much fun when everybody in them are shining paragons of virtue. It just seems like a bit of a jump to me, based on the biases of the author.
Well, an alternative would be that the masses are the source of virtue and it's the elites and ultra individualists who are to be suspicious of That is quite contrary to most Hollywood fare in the past 40 years, but it was a lot more common before that.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Kory
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Re: movies

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:59pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:45pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:25pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:10pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:04pm


I read that piece awhile back and meant to ask people about it. I haven't seen many of his films, so I have no idea about the merit of the critique.
I've seen them all, and maybe I'm dense, but I just don't think of movies that way. Nothing of this nature particularly jumped out at me.
My immediate thought at the time of reading it was that suspicion or hostility to "the people" isn't exclusive to conservatives. The left has, since mid-century, cultivated a deep suspicion of the masses, as people who are either potential reactionary monsters or broken and in need of government mending. I've got a lot of leftist friends who don't trust the average chump. So that is a pretty selective or blinkered assessment.
Sure, but I'm undecided on whether that means that Nolan actually thinks that or if it just happens to be a feature of some of his films. Movies aren't much fun when everybody in them are shining paragons of virtue. It just seems like a bit of a jump to me, based on the biases of the author.
Well, an alternative would be that the masses are the source of virtue and it's the elites and ultra individualists who are to be suspicious of That is quite contrary to most Hollywood fare in the past 40 years, but it was a lot more common before that.
In the context of Nolan's films, though, the Batmen are the only ones that really feature an elite ultra-individualist in a position of "virtue," and even that's debatable. I'm sure I know what you mean, but what films came to mind when you cited the alternative?
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: movies

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 6:31pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:59pm
Well, an alternative would be that the masses are the source of virtue and it's the elites and ultra individualists who are to be suspicious of That is quite contrary to most Hollywood fare in the past 40 years, but it was a lot more common before that.
In the context of Nolan's films, though, the Batmen are the only ones that really feature an elite ultra-individualist in a position of "virtue," and even that's debatable. I'm sure I know what you mean, but what films came to mind when you cited the alternative?
A lot of Capra's most notable films immediately stand out. Classic noir is a mixed bag in that the monster can be power/elites or the common psycho or woman. In the 70s, tho, there were films like Network, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Bonnie and Clyde, or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid that valourized the common person and found evil in elites and their institutions.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: movies

Post by revbob »

Flex wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 12:53pm
Machester by the Sea was kind of a downer.
List that under overhyped movies I'll never bother to see. Forest Gump is on that list too. This is not to say that either us a bad movie but all the hype and promotion surrounding them turn me off completely.

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Re: movies

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 6:44pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 6:31pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:59pm
Well, an alternative would be that the masses are the source of virtue and it's the elites and ultra individualists who are to be suspicious of That is quite contrary to most Hollywood fare in the past 40 years, but it was a lot more common before that.
In the context of Nolan's films, though, the Batmen are the only ones that really feature an elite ultra-individualist in a position of "virtue," and even that's debatable. I'm sure I know what you mean, but what films came to mind when you cited the alternative?
A lot of Capra's most notable films immediately stand out. Classic noir is a mixed bag in that the monster can be power/elites or the common psycho or woman. In the 70s, tho, there were films like Network, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Bonnie and Clyde, or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid that valourized the common person and found evil in elites and their institutions.
Yeah that makes sense, and I guess what confuses me so much about that article, because I don't find the opposite to necessarily be true in Nolan's films. I'd be interested if somebody had another opinion, but to me it just seems like the author had an agenda and hid behind "clever" language because it wasn't a very strong critique.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: movies

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 7:46pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 6:44pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 6:31pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:59pm
Well, an alternative would be that the masses are the source of virtue and it's the elites and ultra individualists who are to be suspicious of That is quite contrary to most Hollywood fare in the past 40 years, but it was a lot more common before that.
In the context of Nolan's films, though, the Batmen are the only ones that really feature an elite ultra-individualist in a position of "virtue," and even that's debatable. I'm sure I know what you mean, but what films came to mind when you cited the alternative?
A lot of Capra's most notable films immediately stand out. Classic noir is a mixed bag in that the monster can be power/elites or the common psycho or woman. In the 70s, tho, there were films like Network, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Bonnie and Clyde, or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid that valourized the common person and found evil in elites and their institutions.
Yeah that makes sense, and I guess what confuses me so much about that article, because I don't find the opposite to necessarily be true in Nolan's films. I'd be interested if somebody had another opinion, but to me it just seems like the author had an agenda and hid behind "clever" language because it wasn't a very strong critique.
There may well be a greater purpose, but one thing I love about The Baffler is its iconoclasm. It certainly comes from a left stance, but there's plenty of critique of leftist (mainly on cultural matters) arguments, too. Tom Frank, one of the magazine's founders, is better known for his political books, but his first book, based on his history PhD, The Conquest of Cool is a marvellous deflation of the significance of the 60s counterculture (and, by inference, subsequent countercultures) (spoiler: capitalism digs the counterculture because it creates new markets). Joseph Heath and Andrew Potter's The Rebel Sell is another fine book along the same lines. The last couple years, I've become a lot more sympathetic to those kinds of critiques of the left, that we've seriously overvalued the cultural battleground and the politics of personal liberty at the expense of mass politics and economic issues. So I'd hesitate to dismiss that Nolan piece as simple left or centre-left attack.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: movies

Post by Flex »

revbob wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 7:05pm
Flex wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 12:53pm
Machester by the Sea was kind of a downer.
List that under overhyped movies I'll never bother to see. Forest Gump is on that list too. This is not to say that either us a bad movie but all the hype and promotion surrounding them turn me off completely.
I thought it was pretty good, nice alternative to how horrible most movies are now that nerd shit is all that you can find in theaters, but definitely not a cheerful flick.
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Inder
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Re: movies

Post by Inder »

Saw Gattaca for the first time yesterday — fantastic.

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Re: movies

Post by Marky Dread »

Inder wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 9:14pm
Saw Gattaca for the first time yesterday — fantastic.
That's a good movie .
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Re: movies

Post by Kory »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 5:30am
Inder wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 9:14pm
Saw Gattaca for the first time yesterday — fantastic.
That's a good movie .
I also really like it, enough to own it. There's just something about a semi-dystopia that's fun to watch but not to live in.
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Kory
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Re: movies

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 8:09pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 7:46pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 6:44pm
Kory wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 6:31pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 4:59pm
Well, an alternative would be that the masses are the source of virtue and it's the elites and ultra individualists who are to be suspicious of That is quite contrary to most Hollywood fare in the past 40 years, but it was a lot more common before that.
In the context of Nolan's films, though, the Batmen are the only ones that really feature an elite ultra-individualist in a position of "virtue," and even that's debatable. I'm sure I know what you mean, but what films came to mind when you cited the alternative?
A lot of Capra's most notable films immediately stand out. Classic noir is a mixed bag in that the monster can be power/elites or the common psycho or woman. In the 70s, tho, there were films like Network, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Bonnie and Clyde, or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid that valourized the common person and found evil in elites and their institutions.
Yeah that makes sense, and I guess what confuses me so much about that article, because I don't find the opposite to necessarily be true in Nolan's films. I'd be interested if somebody had another opinion, but to me it just seems like the author had an agenda and hid behind "clever" language because it wasn't a very strong critique.
There may well be a greater purpose, but one thing I love about The Baffler is its iconoclasm. It certainly comes from a left stance, but there's plenty of critique of leftist (mainly on cultural matters) arguments, too. Tom Frank, one of the magazine's founders, is better known for his political books, but his first book, based on his history PhD, The Conquest of Cool is a marvellous deflation of the significance of the 60s counterculture (and, by inference, subsequent countercultures) (spoiler: capitalism digs the counterculture because it creates new markets). Joseph Heath and Andrew Potter's The Rebel Sell is another fine book along the same lines. The last couple years, I've become a lot more sympathetic to those kinds of critiques of the left, that we've seriously overvalued the cultural battleground and the politics of personal liberty at the expense of mass politics and economic issues. So I'd hesitate to dismiss that Nolan piece as simple left or centre-left attack.
That's not quite what I was implying with the word "agenda"—it just doesn't seem like a well thought through article. Not convincing to me, anyway, but again, I don't necessarily search for hidden political implications in films about magicians. If you have time, I recommend checking out some of the films he mentions in the piece. I'd like to get a more specific critique from somebody who isn't Sturgeon because I'm not seeing what he's seeing.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: movies

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Kory wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 1:02pm
That's not quite what I was implying with the word "agenda"—it just doesn't seem like a well thought through article. Not convincing to me, anyway, but again, I don't necessarily search for hidden political implications in films about magicians. If you have time, I recommend checking out some of the films he mentions in the piece. I'd like to get a more specific critique from somebody who isn't Sturgeon because I'm not seeing what he's seeing.
As far as I know, all I've ever seen is his Batman films and Memento. I have a copy of Inception, but never watched it. I have no talent for film criticism, tho. I can (sometimes) make links with historical context, but that's about it.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Kory
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Re: movies

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 2:45pm
Kory wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 1:02pm
That's not quite what I was implying with the word "agenda"—it just doesn't seem like a well thought through article. Not convincing to me, anyway, but again, I don't necessarily search for hidden political implications in films about magicians. If you have time, I recommend checking out some of the films he mentions in the piece. I'd like to get a more specific critique from somebody who isn't Sturgeon because I'm not seeing what he's seeing.
As far as I know, all I've ever seen is his Batman films and Memento. I have a copy of Inception, but never watched it. I have no talent for film criticism, tho. I can (sometimes) make links with historical context, but that's about it.
Well thanks for nothing :rolleyes:
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: movies

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 4:35pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 2:45pm
Kory wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 1:02pm
That's not quite what I was implying with the word "agenda"—it just doesn't seem like a well thought through article. Not convincing to me, anyway, but again, I don't necessarily search for hidden political implications in films about magicians. If you have time, I recommend checking out some of the films he mentions in the piece. I'd like to get a more specific critique from somebody who isn't Sturgeon because I'm not seeing what he's seeing.
As far as I know, all I've ever seen is his Batman films and Memento. I have a copy of Inception, but never watched it. I have no talent for film criticism, tho. I can (sometimes) make links with historical context, but that's about it.
Well thanks for nothing :rolleyes:
Quoting my employee evaluation file, hmm?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Kory
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Re: movies

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 4:43pm
Kory wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 4:35pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 2:45pm
Kory wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 1:02pm
That's not quite what I was implying with the word "agenda"—it just doesn't seem like a well thought through article. Not convincing to me, anyway, but again, I don't necessarily search for hidden political implications in films about magicians. If you have time, I recommend checking out some of the films he mentions in the piece. I'd like to get a more specific critique from somebody who isn't Sturgeon because I'm not seeing what he's seeing.
As far as I know, all I've ever seen is his Batman films and Memento. I have a copy of Inception, but never watched it. I have no talent for film criticism, tho. I can (sometimes) make links with historical context, but that's about it.
Well thanks for nothing :rolleyes:
Quoting my employee evaluation file, hmm?
lol
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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