Currently watching.

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Re: Currently watching.

Post by JennyB » 04 Mar 2019, 11:35am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 11:21am
JennyB wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 11:07am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 10:54am
JennyB wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 10:46am
Did anyone watch "Leaving Neverland" last night? It was the most horrifying thing I have ever watched. I know I sound hyperbolic, but I had a very hard time trying to sleep. MJ is guilty as fuck.
I don't think I can watch. I don't need to be persuaded of his guilt and immersing myself (that's the wrong phrase, but I can't think of anything better) would only make me feel worse about the world, I think.
Yeah. Part 2 is on tonight, and I am not going to watch. When I worked in child abuse prevention, I used to use him as the cornerstone for a stereotypical pedophile, and people would get very angry at me. Believe the victims, unless the allegations are against someone you are a fan of, I guess. I am hoping that this changes some minds. The fact that the Jackson estate released a concert from Budapest on YouTube last night to be played at the same time the doc aired seems especially desperate to me.
It's fascinating and unsettling the hoops that people will go thru to deny that kind of horrific behaviour. The last couple years, Canada has been experiencing protests to removes statues of the first prime minister, John A. Macdonald, because he was a white supremacist. Not just a racist, but someone who saw Canada's glorious future as requiring the extermination of indigenous people. The efforts that people will make to somehow soften his stance would, ironically, be rejected by the man himself. He was a loud and proud white supremacist. But people, assuming they aren't racists, think it would tarnish Canada's sense of self to remove the statues, that, perversely, we acknowledge his evil only be leaving up the monuments. In the past, I tried to make the argument that if we learned that he raped children, we'd be much more ready to take down the statues. But I'm less certain of that now—when some want a particular conclusion, the arguments will be twisted in perverse ways.
Exactly.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 04 Mar 2019, 1:04pm

Most lunch hours, when I'm at home, I watch Hogan's Heroes. It's not even remotely entertaining, but it's such a bizarre form of offence that I keep coming back. It might be the greatest unintentional cringe comedy of all time. So it's lunchtime and I'm watching. Maybe I'm expecting an epiphany to explain it all, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Flex » 04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:04pm
Most lunch hours, when I'm at home, I watch Hogan's Heroes. It's not even remotely entertaining, but it's such a bizarre form of offence that I keep coming back. It might be the greatest unintentional cringe comedy of all time. So it's lunchtime and I'm watching. Maybe I'm expecting an epiphany to explain it all, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.
They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Wolter » 04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm

Flex wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:04pm
Most lunch hours, when I'm at home, I watch Hogan's Heroes. It's not even remotely entertaining, but it's such a bizarre form of offence that I keep coming back. It might be the greatest unintentional cringe comedy of all time. So it's lunchtime and I'm watching. Maybe I'm expecting an epiphany to explain it all, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.
They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Kory » 04 Mar 2019, 1:55pm

Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm
Flex wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:04pm
Most lunch hours, when I'm at home, I watch Hogan's Heroes. It's not even remotely entertaining, but it's such a bizarre form of offence that I keep coming back. It might be the greatest unintentional cringe comedy of all time. So it's lunchtime and I'm watching. Maybe I'm expecting an epiphany to explain it all, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.
They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
I smell an Emmy.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 04 Mar 2019, 1:58pm

Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm
Flex wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:04pm
Most lunch hours, when I'm at home, I watch Hogan's Heroes. It's not even remotely entertaining, but it's such a bizarre form of offence that I keep coming back. It might be the greatest unintentional cringe comedy of all time. So it's lunchtime and I'm watching. Maybe I'm expecting an epiphany to explain it all, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.
They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
I chatted with my Jewish historian friend about that and he thinks that their participation was not out of a Jewish identity—at least not directly—but of a German one (except for Clary, of course). In a weird way, he theorized, it was a way of German/Austrian Jews to reclaim their nationality after it had been stolen by the Nazis. It's still fucking weird to me, but his explanation does make some sense (tho it's still entirely speculative).
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Wolter » 04 Mar 2019, 2:15pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:58pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm
Flex wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:04pm
Most lunch hours, when I'm at home, I watch Hogan's Heroes. It's not even remotely entertaining, but it's such a bizarre form of offence that I keep coming back. It might be the greatest unintentional cringe comedy of all time. So it's lunchtime and I'm watching. Maybe I'm expecting an epiphany to explain it all, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.
They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
I chatted with my Jewish historian friend about that and he thinks that their participation was not out of a Jewish identity—at least not directly—but of a German one (except for Clary, of course). In a weird way, he theorized, it was a way of German/Austrian Jews to reclaim their nationality after it had been stolen by the Nazis. It's still fucking weird to me, but his explanation does make some sense (tho it's still entirely speculative).
That’s definitely a possibility. It just still seems so crazy that such a devastating event could be normalized within two decades to banal 60s comedy.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by 101Walterton » 04 Mar 2019, 2:28pm

Started watching Lucile’s last night (have to wait until the missus goes away today to carry on Ozark).
Anyway Lucile’s is on the real telly and we obviously started mid series.
Can anyone tell me what the fuck is going on?
I thought it was a cop / murder series and it was loosely was but obviously there is also a long running story where some guy has been kidnapped and his Dad is being blackmailed and the Dad is blaming Lucifer???

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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 04 Mar 2019, 3:27pm

Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 2:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:58pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm
Flex wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:04pm
Most lunch hours, when I'm at home, I watch Hogan's Heroes. It's not even remotely entertaining, but it's such a bizarre form of offence that I keep coming back. It might be the greatest unintentional cringe comedy of all time. So it's lunchtime and I'm watching. Maybe I'm expecting an epiphany to explain it all, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.
They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
I chatted with my Jewish historian friend about that and he thinks that their participation was not out of a Jewish identity—at least not directly—but of a German one (except for Clary, of course). In a weird way, he theorized, it was a way of German/Austrian Jews to reclaim their nationality after it had been stolen by the Nazis. It's still fucking weird to me, but his explanation does make some sense (tho it's still entirely speculative).
That’s definitely a possibility. It just still seems so crazy that such a devastating event could be normalized within two decades to banal 60s comedy.
Conventional historical wisdom—which said friend disagrees with vehemently—has it that the Holocaust didn't become a grand narrative of Jewishness until after the Six-Day War. Prior to that it was mostly a private, whispered thing, with an emphasis on mourning and personal failures, and wondering how human beings could do that to each other. Afterwards, it becomes a rallying point of sorts—this fucking happened and it cannot happen again. So the idea of making light of Nazis and prison camps is a bit easier to fathom—it wasn't quite as taboo. And it reinforced that American victory culture that grew up around the Cold War. If all that is valid, then our incomprehension is the result of growing up after the repositioning of the Holocaust in historical memory. Maybe. I'm not sure I fully buy that. As partial rebuttal to that, check out the Mad version of the show: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhzfkfmav0cts ... 8.pdf?dl=0 They clearly saw it for the horrible taste that it was. That last page is a jawdropper.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by JennyB » 04 Mar 2019, 4:24pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 3:27pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 2:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:58pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm
Flex wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm


They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
I chatted with my Jewish historian friend about that and he thinks that their participation was not out of a Jewish identity—at least not directly—but of a German one (except for Clary, of course). In a weird way, he theorized, it was a way of German/Austrian Jews to reclaim their nationality after it had been stolen by the Nazis. It's still fucking weird to me, but his explanation does make some sense (tho it's still entirely speculative).
That’s definitely a possibility. It just still seems so crazy that such a devastating event could be normalized within two decades to banal 60s comedy.
Conventional historical wisdom—which said friend disagrees with vehemently—has it that the Holocaust didn't become a grand narrative of Jewishness until after the Six-Day War. Prior to that it was mostly a private, whispered thing, with an emphasis on mourning and personal failures, and wondering how human beings could do that to each other. Afterwards, it becomes a rallying point of sorts—this fucking happened and it cannot happen again. So the idea of making light of Nazis and prison camps is a bit easier to fathom—it wasn't quite as taboo. And it reinforced that American victory culture that grew up around the Cold War. If all that is valid, then our incomprehension is the result of growing up after the repositioning of the Holocaust in historical memory. Maybe. I'm not sure I fully buy that. As partial rebuttal to that, check out the Mad version of the show: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhzfkfmav0cts ... 8.pdf?dl=0 They clearly saw it for the horrible taste that it was. That last page is a jawdropper.
I think it was more during the Eichmann trial than the Six-Day War.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Kory » 04 Mar 2019, 4:40pm

I've started the IT Crowd—I'm not liking it as much as Toast, but it shows some promise, 4 episodes in. I will say it's kind of weird watching a show and waiting for the first anti-trans joke to roll around.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Silent Majority » 04 Mar 2019, 4:41pm

Kory wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 4:40pm
I've started the IT Crowd—I'm not liking it as much as Toast, but it shows some promise, 4 episodes in. I will say it's kind of weird watching a show and waiting for the first anti-trans joke to roll around.
oh boy is there one coming
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 04 Mar 2019, 4:41pm

JennyB wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 4:24pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 3:27pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 2:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:58pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm


It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
I chatted with my Jewish historian friend about that and he thinks that their participation was not out of a Jewish identity—at least not directly—but of a German one (except for Clary, of course). In a weird way, he theorized, it was a way of German/Austrian Jews to reclaim their nationality after it had been stolen by the Nazis. It's still fucking weird to me, but his explanation does make some sense (tho it's still entirely speculative).
That’s definitely a possibility. It just still seems so crazy that such a devastating event could be normalized within two decades to banal 60s comedy.
Conventional historical wisdom—which said friend disagrees with vehemently—has it that the Holocaust didn't become a grand narrative of Jewishness until after the Six-Day War. Prior to that it was mostly a private, whispered thing, with an emphasis on mourning and personal failures, and wondering how human beings could do that to each other. Afterwards, it becomes a rallying point of sorts—this fucking happened and it cannot happen again. So the idea of making light of Nazis and prison camps is a bit easier to fathom—it wasn't quite as taboo. And it reinforced that American victory culture that grew up around the Cold War. If all that is valid, then our incomprehension is the result of growing up after the repositioning of the Holocaust in historical memory. Maybe. I'm not sure I fully buy that. As partial rebuttal to that, check out the Mad version of the show: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhzfkfmav0cts ... 8.pdf?dl=0 They clearly saw it for the horrible taste that it was. That last page is a jawdropper.
I think it was more during the Eichmann trial than the Six-Day War.
My friend argues that the private, whispered shame thing is vastly overblown and the anxious/defiant stance was there from the start. I'm not well-read enough to counter him, only that the stuff I have read uses 1967 as the watershed. I've also seen argued that it was the mini-series Holocaust in the late 70s that was greatest alterer of cultural consciousness. After that, few could plead ignorance. I have a memory of watching it as a kid, which I now wonder whether my parents gave a shit at all what I was consuming. I would have been about nine and watching by myself this tv show with people being gunned down in pits and beaten and abused. What the fuck, mom? (Answer: Sixth of six kids. The needle had swung from overprotection to laissez faire after that many kids.)
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Wolter » 04 Mar 2019, 4:43pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 3:27pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 2:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:58pm
Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:47pm
Flex wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 1:42pm


They always used to play hogan's heroes reruns during Rockies rain delays when I was a kid. Bad tv, bad baseball. It was the perfect match.
It’s so baffling how many of the show’s cast were actual WW2 POWs, German jews, or both. And it was so close to the war. It would be like a wacky series about Gitmo starring Muslim Americans who had experienced hate crimes came out in a few years.
I chatted with my Jewish historian friend about that and he thinks that their participation was not out of a Jewish identity—at least not directly—but of a German one (except for Clary, of course). In a weird way, he theorized, it was a way of German/Austrian Jews to reclaim their nationality after it had been stolen by the Nazis. It's still fucking weird to me, but his explanation does make some sense (tho it's still entirely speculative).
That’s definitely a possibility. It just still seems so crazy that such a devastating event could be normalized within two decades to banal 60s comedy.
Conventional historical wisdom—which said friend disagrees with vehemently—has it that the Holocaust didn't become a grand narrative of Jewishness until after the Six-Day War. Prior to that it was mostly a private, whispered thing, with an emphasis on mourning and personal failures, and wondering how human beings could do that to each other. Afterwards, it becomes a rallying point of sorts—this fucking happened and it cannot happen again. So the idea of making light of Nazis and prison camps is a bit easier to fathom—it wasn't quite as taboo. And it reinforced that American victory culture that grew up around the Cold War. If all that is valid, then our incomprehension is the result of growing up after the repositioning of the Holocaust in historical memory. Maybe. I'm not sure I fully buy that. As partial rebuttal to that, check out the Mad version of the show: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhzfkfmav0cts ... 8.pdf?dl=0 They clearly saw it for the horrible taste that it was. That last page is a jawdropper.
Whoa.

Of course, the vast majority of Mad’s artists and writers were Jewish.
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Re: Currently watching.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 04 Mar 2019, 4:58pm

Wolter wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 4:43pm
Whoa.

Of course, the vast majority of Mad’s artists and writers were Jewish.
I once read an article that compared Mad's formative period to the New York Intellectuals, a group of mostly Jewish public intellectuals in the 1940s and 50s, anti-Stalinist left and liberal (e.g., Lionel Trilling, Irving Howe, Harold Rosenberg, Dwight Macdonald). Of course the NYI were hostile to popular culture—it was debased kitsch, evidence of the masses being morons in need of supervision—whereas Mad dealt with a lot of the same concerns—conformity, hypocrisy, ignorance, phony patriotism—but was a hell of a lot more incisive when it came to popular culture because it didn't just dismiss it. Deep down, Mad treated popular culture as something pretty damned important. But, yeah, there was more than one way for Jewish writers to contribute to public discourse, and Mad had a much bigger audience and greater long-lasting effect on young minds.
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