If Music Could Talk

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:32pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:13pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 4:11pm

Heston wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 3:40pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 3:36pm

But for the right reasons and in the right way. Not everyone can be Limahl, baby.

He was a grumpy old man at 25. Imagine being in the Beatles and complaining all the time!

Can you imagine having that much pressure placed on you at that age? Paul's even said that they were never allowed to have a youth—the demands of being Beatles ate it all up. George, quicker than the others, even John, saw thru the bullshit and rebelled against it. He loved making music and experiencing life, but he sensibly hated the artificiality of being a Beatle.

Oh yeah fucking heartbreaking give me a break. "Never allowed to have a youth" ...this is the sixties were talking about here just how wealthy do you think his mates were that he (they) left behind in Liverpool holding down shitty jobs for even shittier pay. Thousands would've given their right arm to be as talented and as fortunate as George.

Perhaps there's a happy place in between working class poverty and living in a bubble. I still hear the same kind of cynical comments about Kurt Cobain. Oh, poor baby, couldn't handle the fame he pursued so he blew his head off. Some can't handle living their lives in the spotlight, feeling like they're constantly being run on someone else's schedule. I clearly haven't walked in their shoes, but I have a feeling I'd be pretty miserable having those expectations placed upon me so publicly.

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:37pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:32pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:13pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 4:11pm

Heston wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 3:40pm

He was a grumpy old man at 25. Imagine being in the Beatles and complaining all the time!

Can you imagine having that much pressure placed on you at that age? Paul's even said that they were never allowed to have a youth—the demands of being Beatles ate it all up. George, quicker than the others, even John, saw thru the bullshit and rebelled against it. He loved making music and experiencing life, but he sensibly hated the artificiality of being a Beatle.

Oh yeah fucking heartbreaking give me a break. "Never allowed to have a youth" ...this is the sixties were talking about here just how wealthy do you think his mates were that he (they) left behind in Liverpool holding down shitty jobs for even shittier pay. Thousands would've given their right arm to be as talented and as fortunate as George.

Perhaps there's a happy place in between working class poverty and living in a bubble. I still hear the same kind of cynical comments about Kurt Cobain. Oh, poor baby, couldn't handle the fame he pursued so he blew his head off. Some can't handle living their lives in the spotlight, feeling like they're constantly being run on someone else's schedule. I clearly haven't walked in their shoes, but I have a feeling I'd be pretty miserable having those expectations placed upon me so publicly.

I guess everyone feels different regards this stuff. But George had a life that most kids his age could only dream about. Pressure is holding down a shitty 9-5 to keep the rent man off your back not having all your needs catered for. If you don't want to be a performing seal then don't join the circus.

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:37pm

I guess everyone feels different regards this stuff. But George had a life that most kids his age could only dream about. Pressure is holding down a shitty 9-5 to keep the rent man off your back not having all your needs catered for. If you don't want to be a performing seal then don't join the circus.

coffeepotman wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 9:32am

Silent Majority wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 7:19pm

Heston wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 3:40pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 3:36pm

Heston wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2019, 3:34pm

He was a miserable twat.

But for the right reasons and in the right way. Not everyone can be Limahl, baby.

He was a grumpy old man at 25. Imagine being in the Beatles and complaining all the time!

This is a rare case where my knee jerk complete lack of sympathy for any millionaire doesn't come through just because of the complete headfuck of being so young and being put it in an unprecedented fishbowl. I mean, still, fuck him for complaining about being taxed in a crap song and whining about his fame and riches, but I see how he got there.

George also has a religious/spiritual born again whatever you want to call it transformation. Imaging being so close to somebody for so long and then them becoming a "born again" holy roller. constantly preaching and proselytising. Follow me I know the way blah blah blah

101Walterton wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 3:24pm

Kurt Cobain I’d suggest is a different issue. You don’t shoot yourself because you are unhappy you shoot yourself because you are suffering from a mental illness albeit brought on (or exasperated by) his situation.
I don’t see the moaners giving it all away, the fame, the money, the ‘things’ that make them unhappy’.
Most even do the 20 year reunion tour FFS!!!

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:54pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:37pm

I guess everyone feels different regards this stuff. But George had a life that most kids his age could only dream about. Pressure is holding down a shitty 9-5 to keep the rent man off your back not having all your needs catered for. If you don't want to be a performing seal then don't join the circus.

I think the key here is that unless you're thrown in, you don't know what it'll be like and whether you can handle it. In the abstract, fuck yeah, what 20 year old kid doesn't want money, luxury, beautiful women, etc etc? Materially, he was undoubtedly living better than anyone in his family or circle of friends ever could. But he was a guy who saw more to life than just the material. We can raise eyebrows about a certain hypocrisy that it's not like he gave up all the material comforts—as James mentioned above, he was still the guy whining in song about being taxed harshly—but he was enough his own man to call bulllshit on the spectacle of showbiz and how it dehumanizes. Plenty of punks made the same argument, and most of us here talk a jaundiced view of that kind showbiz hero worship.

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 8:35pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:54pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:37pm

I guess everyone feels different regards this stuff. But George had a life that most kids his age could only dream about. Pressure is holding down a shitty 9-5 to keep the rent man off your back not having all your needs catered for. If you don't want to be a performing seal then don't join the circus.

I think the key here is that unless you're thrown in, you don't know what it'll be like and whether you can handle it. In the abstract, fuck yeah, what 20 year old kid doesn't want money, luxury, beautiful women, etc etc? Materially, he was undoubtedly living better than anyone in his family or circle of friends ever could. But he was a guy who saw more to life than just the material. We can raise eyebrows about a certain hypocrisy that it's not like he gave up all the material comforts—as James mentioned above, he was still the guy whining in song about being taxed harshly—but he was enough his own man to call bulllshit on the spectacle of showbiz and how it dehumanizes. Plenty of punks made the same argument, and most of us here talk a jaundiced view of that kind showbiz hero worship.

I simply can't agree here. He wasn't chucked into anything he chose to be part of a group and any young aspiring musician wants success. How well he could handle that success when it finally came is his sole problem. He probably had a harder time the 6 months he spent as an electrician. I don't like fortunate people moaning about how hard their life is when they got to choose to do what they wanted and to fulfill their dreams. Try keeping a roof over your head and working a crap job that you hate and still try to have your youth.

Snarky comment : for someone known as "the quiet Beatle" ...

101Walterton wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 9:00pm

If you are a musician and write a song or play in a band that suddenly thrusts you into the limelight, if you don’t like that limelight you can disappear out of it as quickly as you rose.
If you fill your boots for years it is not so easy to disappear back to being a nobody buthat is the choice you make.
You can’t have it both ways and have all the trappings of success and then just disappear with your fortune when you tire of it.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 9:15pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 8:35pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:54pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:37pm

I guess everyone feels different regards this stuff. But George had a life that most kids his age could only dream about. Pressure is holding down a shitty 9-5 to keep the rent man off your back not having all your needs catered for. If you don't want to be a performing seal then don't join the circus.

I think the key here is that unless you're thrown in, you don't know what it'll be like and whether you can handle it. In the abstract, fuck yeah, what 20 year old kid doesn't want money, luxury, beautiful women, etc etc? Materially, he was undoubtedly living better than anyone in his family or circle of friends ever could. But he was a guy who saw more to life than just the material. We can raise eyebrows about a certain hypocrisy that it's not like he gave up all the material comforts—as James mentioned above, he was still the guy whining in song about being taxed harshly—but he was enough his own man to call bulllshit on the spectacle of showbiz and how it dehumanizes. Plenty of punks made the same argument, and most of us here talk a jaundiced view of that kind showbiz hero worship.

I simply can't agree here. He wasn't chucked into anything he chose to be part of a group and any young aspiring musician wants success. How well he could handle that success when it finally came is his sole problem. He probably had a harder time the 6 months he spent as an electrician. I don't like fortunate people moaning about how hard their life is when they got to choose to do what they wanted and to fulfill their dreams. Try keeping a roof over your head and working a crap job that you hate and still try to have your youth.

I think the point is that George didn't fulfill his dreams. Yeah, he followed the route that he expected would make him super happy and all that, but found it hollow once he got to the top. The choice shouldn't be living in a public bubble or working class material anxiety. He hated being packaged, that being a musician shouldn't mean being a hunk of meat. That's not an absurd position. Why should the price of being a popular musician be a loss of autonomy and privacy? And, more so, none of us have even an inkling of what it was like for those guys. The intensity of their lives, the exposure, between 1963 and 1965 or '66 was greater than all but a few celebrities have ever experienced. I don't want to seem all "poor Beatles," but rather their experience can't be regarded as unambiguously positive, that there was a psychological price to be paid. At a certain point, it's reasonable to think some people would regard the fame becomes a curse. John probably did, Paul didn't. More than a few celebrities who operated under less scrutiny than any of the Beatles were damaged by the spotlight (Elvis? Michael Jackson?). I'm not arguing that we should pity George or any of the others, only to appreciate that he found the negatives of celebrity couldn't be ignored if he were to be truly happy. No one was happier when the phony Beatlemania had bitten the dust.

Snarky comment : for someone known as "the quiet Beatle" ...

*snort* Maybe he was the muttering Beatle.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 9:15pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 8:35pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:54pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 12:37pm

I guess everyone feels different regards this stuff. But George had a life that most kids his age could only dream about. Pressure is holding down a shitty 9-5 to keep the rent man off your back not having all your needs catered for. If you don't want to be a performing seal then don't join the circus.

I think the key here is that unless you're thrown in, you don't know what it'll be like and whether you can handle it. In the abstract, fuck yeah, what 20 year old kid doesn't want money, luxury, beautiful women, etc etc? Materially, he was undoubtedly living better than anyone in his family or circle of friends ever could. But he was a guy who saw more to life than just the material. We can raise eyebrows about a certain hypocrisy that it's not like he gave up all the material comforts—as James mentioned above, he was still the guy whining in song about being taxed harshly—but he was enough his own man to call bulllshit on the spectacle of showbiz and how it dehumanizes. Plenty of punks made the same argument, and most of us here talk a jaundiced view of that kind showbiz hero worship.

I simply can't agree here. He wasn't chucked into anything he chose to be part of a group and any young aspiring musician wants success. How well he could handle that success when it finally came is his sole problem. He probably had a harder time the 6 months he spent as an electrician. I don't like fortunate people moaning about how hard their life is when they got to choose to do what they wanted and to fulfill their dreams. Try keeping a roof over your head and working a crap job that you hate and still try to have your youth.

I think the point is that George didn't fulfill his dreams. Yeah, he followed the route that he expected would make him super happy and all that, but found it hollow once he got to the top. The choice shouldn't be living in a public bubble or working class material anxiety. He hated being packaged, that being a musician shouldn't mean being a hunk of meat. That's not an absurd position. Why should the price of being a popular musician be a loss of autonomy and privacy? And, more so, none of us have even an inkling of what it was like for those guys. The intensity of their lives, the exposure, between 1963 and 1965 or '66 was greater than all but a few celebrities have ever experienced. I don't want to seem all "poor Beatles," but rather their experience can't be regarded as unambiguously positive, that there was a psychological price to be paid. At a certain point, it's reasonable to think some people would regard the fame becomes a curse. John probably did, Paul didn't. More than a few celebrities who operated under less scrutiny than any of the Beatles were damaged by the spotlight (Elvis? Michael Jackson?). I'm not arguing that we should pity George or any of the others, only to appreciate that he found the negatives of celebrity couldn't be ignored if he were to be truly happy. No one was happier when the phony Beatlemania had bitten the dust.

Snarky comment : for someone known as "the quiet Beatle" ...

*snort* Maybe he was the muttering Beatle.

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 9:26pm

I'm not suggesting I understand how George felt in that bubble. All I'm saying is he at least he got to experience one hell of a life. The fact George feels it didn't live up to expectations or didn't match his dreams is only something he would know. But I imagine his expectations changed as success became bigger and bigger. Lets face it some deal with these things better than others but it couldn't of been all bad.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 3:51pm

101Walterton wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 3:24pm

Kurt Cobain I’d suggest is a different issue. You don’t shoot yourself because you are unhappy you shoot yourself because you are suffering from a mental illness albeit brought on (or exasperated by) his situation.
I don’t see the moaners giving it all away, the fame, the money, the ‘things’ that make them unhappy’.
Most even do the 20 year reunion tour FFS!!!

Definitely—Cobain was a damaged soul, which left him ill-equipped for dealing with the appointed role of generational spokesman and all that crap from super stardom. He wanted to make music and he wanted other people to hear that music. It's the cost of privacy and autonomy that's the super fine print in the deal. Cobain may have killed himself at a young age by choice or accidental overdose even if he'd never become famous, but it's callous when people* call him a loser for not being able to deal with fame and wealth.

* I've had at least five students in the past four years who have voiced this opinion of him as the ultimate whiner and cop out. That's seriously cold.

JennyB wrote: ↑

15 Jan 2019, 11:00am

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 3:51pm

101Walterton wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2019, 3:24pm

Kurt Cobain I’d suggest is a different issue. You don’t shoot yourself because you are unhappy you shoot yourself because you are suffering from a mental illness albeit brought on (or exasperated by) his situation.
I don’t see the moaners giving it all away, the fame, the money, the ‘things’ that make them unhappy’.
Most even do the 20 year reunion tour FFS!!!

Definitely—Cobain was a damaged soul, which left him ill-equipped for dealing with the appointed role of generational spokesman and all that crap from super stardom. He wanted to make music and he wanted other people to hear that music. It's the cost of privacy and autonomy that's the super fine print in the deal. Cobain may have killed himself at a young age by choice or accidental overdose even if he'd never become famous, but it's callous when people* call him a loser for not being able to deal with fame and wealth.

* I've had at least five students in the past four years who have voiced this opinion of him as the ultimate whiner and cop out. That's seriously cold.

That is cold. Plus, he had a severe stomach ailment and was in constant pain. Not a big Nirvana fan by any means, but give the guy a break.