The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 22 Dec 2018, 7:19am

Flex wrote:
22 Dec 2018, 1:58am
i'm seeing my lib friends on facebooksaying shit like "mad dog for president". jesus fuck
There are times when, if only in my gut, I want some kind of cognitive standard employed in the right to vote.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by JennyB » 24 Dec 2018, 12:42pm

Flex wrote:
22 Dec 2018, 1:58am
i'm seeing my lib friends on facebooksaying shit like "mad dog for president". jesus fuck
I'd vote for this dog though.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Dec 2018, 4:05pm

JennyB wrote:
24 Dec 2018, 12:42pm
Flex wrote:
22 Dec 2018, 1:58am
i'm seeing my lib friends on facebooksaying shit like "mad dog for president". jesus fuck
I'd vote for this dog though.

Image
I saw that in the theatre when it was released. Loved every damn one of Dean Jones' Disney movies.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Flex » 25 Dec 2018, 7:42pm

JennyB wrote:
24 Dec 2018, 12:42pm
I'd vote for this dog though.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5 ... 5._V1_.jpg
oh hell yeah
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 26 Dec 2018, 9:33am

Flex wrote:
25 Dec 2018, 7:42pm
JennyB wrote:
24 Dec 2018, 12:42pm
I'd vote for this dog though.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5 ... 5._V1_.jpg
oh hell yeah
That guy was the KING of Disney movies for a good 10 year spell. I remember when we got The Disney Channel in the mid-80's and they had those old films on all of the time. There was one where he owned some sort of plantation (olives or bananas) and he brought in chimps to pick the fruit - causing all sorts of friction with the locals...but of course...all was sorted out in the end!!
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Silent Majority » 01 Jan 2019, 11:03am

Warren? Not the worst choice for President. Better than H. Clinton. Hope she makes an exceptional candidate.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Jan 2019, 11:20am

Silent Majority wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:03am
Warren? Not the worst choice for President. Better than H. Clinton. Hope she makes an exceptional candidate.
Some of the early takes are that she plays right into Trump's strengths—woman, intellectual, liberal. Which is to say, Hillary 2.0. But that ignores Hillary's track record of contempt for the working class and that the past couple years have shown what happens when you have a confirmed moron in the big chair. Far from confirming the triumph of anti-intellectualism in American politics, Trump has demonstrated the terrifying endpoint of that thread, so I'm not convinced that having an intellectual pedigree will be quite the kiss of death. The biggest challenge will be changing the narrative from the Native American/DNA test nonsense. Dumb shit but media loves that kind of inane superficiality and her rivals will push it.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Flex » 01 Jan 2019, 11:41am

Warren is who I wanted to run last time, glad she's in now. Will be a crowded field, but she's the most appealing candidate who could realistically snag the nomination that I can think of off the top of my head

The DNA stuff has been dumb all the way around, but I just can't see that single issue being what breaks her chances.

Trump barely won last time. Warren's (genuine) anti-kleptocratic streak should be enough to motivate at least enough voters who stayed home last time and a few of the shitheads who made sure to get out to the polls to keep the woman who murdered Blue Lives Benghazis from having the power to cover up pizzagate may just stay home this time (tho obviously most will come out to vote for their orange cult leader no matter what).

Of course, since this is the Democratic Party, we'll probably end up with fucking Kamala Cop Harris or Beto or some shit.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Jan 2019, 11:53am

Flex wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:41am
Trump barely won last time. Warren's (genuine) anti-kleptocratic streak should be enough to motivate at least enough voters who stayed home last time and a few of the shitheads who made sure to get out to the polls to keep the woman who murdered Blue Lives Benghazis from having the power to cover up pizzagate may just stay home this time (tho obviously most will come out to vote for their orange cult leader no matter what).
Assuming Warren gets the nomination, she'd certainly push the Wall Street types who were good with Hillary and feeling anxious about Trump back to the Republicans. Which isn't to say, "Oh no, she'd alienate the fatcat vote, can't let that happen," but it is an aspect to consider where Warren would be unable to retain one Clinton bloc. In terms of genuinely scaring Wall Street, you'd have to go back McGovern for that kind of big business criticism, no?
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 02 Jan 2019, 11:56am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:20am
Silent Majority wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:03am
Warren? Not the worst choice for President. Better than H. Clinton. Hope she makes an exceptional candidate.
Some of the early takes are that she plays right into Trump's strengths—woman, intellectual, liberal. Which is to say, Hillary 2.0. But that ignores Hillary's track record of contempt for the working class and that the past couple years have shown what happens when you have a confirmed moron in the big chair. Far from confirming the triumph of anti-intellectualism in American politics, Trump has demonstrated the terrifying endpoint of that thread, so I'm not convinced that having an intellectual pedigree will be quite the kiss of death. The biggest challenge will be changing the narrative from the Native American/DNA test nonsense. Dumb shit but media loves that kind of inane superficiality and her rivals will push it.
My question is how important is it to court the working class/middle America? My gut says it is very important. Warren plays well to the Democratic base - but can she reach those outside of that base? I don't know - but I kind of worry she can't. HRC did a poor job connecting with middle America (in my opinion). I felt like she took their vote for granted as in "I'm the Democratic candidate and Democrats always take care of the working class, so I know I already have your vote" and that is the wrong way to look at it. I think Warren is more astute and genuine than HRC in that regard, but do we live in a country where a New England Liberal can still sway the common man and woman?
"If they believed in a place called Kokomo, then so did I." - Michael Edward Love

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 02 Jan 2019, 12:33pm

WestwayKid wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 11:56am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:20am
Silent Majority wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:03am
Warren? Not the worst choice for President. Better than H. Clinton. Hope she makes an exceptional candidate.
Some of the early takes are that she plays right into Trump's strengths—woman, intellectual, liberal. Which is to say, Hillary 2.0. But that ignores Hillary's track record of contempt for the working class and that the past couple years have shown what happens when you have a confirmed moron in the big chair. Far from confirming the triumph of anti-intellectualism in American politics, Trump has demonstrated the terrifying endpoint of that thread, so I'm not convinced that having an intellectual pedigree will be quite the kiss of death. The biggest challenge will be changing the narrative from the Native American/DNA test nonsense. Dumb shit but media loves that kind of inane superficiality and her rivals will push it.
My question is how important is it to court the working class/middle America? My gut says it is very important. Warren plays well to the Democratic base - but can she reach those outside of that base? I don't know - but I kind of worry she can't. HRC did a poor job connecting with middle America (in my opinion). I felt like she took their vote for granted as in "I'm the Democratic candidate and Democrats always take care of the working class, so I know I already have your vote" and that is the wrong way to look at it. I think Warren is more astute and genuine than HRC in that regard, but do we live in a country where a New England Liberal can still sway the common man and woman?
A huge problem for Democrats is that over the past fifty years they've abandoned the working class, regarding the professional class as their constituency—highly educated, cosmopolitan, ideologically embracing of diversity but more than a bit snobbish in practice. They decided the working class is culturally backward and that that's what is keeping them from prospering. It's a very liberal worldview—the system is fine, bad actors fuck it up. Other than in lazy rhetoric, most Democrats don't know how to speak to the working class with any kind of sincerity. They've abandoned the field to Republicans, whose success with the working class over the same period is just confirmation that the working class are backwards and can be written off. There are plenty of reasons why the working class continues to slip behind in America, but a key reason is one party is contemptuous of them and the other channels their grievances into dumb and pointless ragefests.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Flex » 02 Jan 2019, 12:35pm

WestwayKid wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 11:56am
My question is how important is it to court the working class/middle America? My gut says it is very important. Warren plays well to the Democratic base - but can she reach those outside of that base? I don't know - but I kind of worry she can't. HRC did a poor job connecting with middle America (in my opinion). I felt like she took their vote for granted as in "I'm the Democratic candidate and Democrats always take care of the working class, so I know I already have your vote" and that is the wrong way to look at it. I think Warren is more astute and genuine than HRC in that regard, but do we live in a country where a New England Liberal can still sway the common man and woman?
I like to think that at least some segment of the old working class coalition will be interested in her anti-big business bona fides (which, grading on the extremely lousy curve that is American politics, aren't bad) and genuine (as opposed to mostly fake, as with Chillary), robust support for unions and labor organizing.

I'm open to alternative names to Warren who have those credentials and may be better on other issues or building a broader coalition, but I'm not sure that person is there on the Dems bench.
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

Sous les pavés, la plage.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 02 Jan 2019, 1:40pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 12:33pm
WestwayKid wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 11:56am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:20am
Silent Majority wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 11:03am
Warren? Not the worst choice for President. Better than H. Clinton. Hope she makes an exceptional candidate.
Some of the early takes are that she plays right into Trump's strengths—woman, intellectual, liberal. Which is to say, Hillary 2.0. But that ignores Hillary's track record of contempt for the working class and that the past couple years have shown what happens when you have a confirmed moron in the big chair. Far from confirming the triumph of anti-intellectualism in American politics, Trump has demonstrated the terrifying endpoint of that thread, so I'm not convinced that having an intellectual pedigree will be quite the kiss of death. The biggest challenge will be changing the narrative from the Native American/DNA test nonsense. Dumb shit but media loves that kind of inane superficiality and her rivals will push it.
My question is how important is it to court the working class/middle America? My gut says it is very important. Warren plays well to the Democratic base - but can she reach those outside of that base? I don't know - but I kind of worry she can't. HRC did a poor job connecting with middle America (in my opinion). I felt like she took their vote for granted as in "I'm the Democratic candidate and Democrats always take care of the working class, so I know I already have your vote" and that is the wrong way to look at it. I think Warren is more astute and genuine than HRC in that regard, but do we live in a country where a New England Liberal can still sway the common man and woman?
A huge problem for Democrats is that over the past fifty years they've abandoned the working class, regarding the professional class as their constituency—highly educated, cosmopolitan, ideologically embracing of diversity but more than a bit snobbish in practice. They decided the working class is culturally backward and that that's what is keeping them from prospering. It's a very liberal worldview—the system is fine, bad actors fuck it up. Other than in lazy rhetoric, most Democrats don't know how to speak to the working class with any kind of sincerity. They've abandoned the field to Republicans, whose success with the working class over the same period is just confirmation that the working class are backwards and can be written off. There are plenty of reasons why the working class continues to slip behind in America, but a key reason is one party is contemptuous of them and the other channels their grievances into dumb and pointless ragefests.
I agree with this statement. I come from a long line of working class Democrats. That is my political pedigree and remains important to my family - even as we've become increasingly college educated and middle class. This has been a sore point for me - the marginalization of the working class and the inability to not just speak to the working class - but to truly respect the working class - is very troubling. This isn't to say that the Democratic Party does not have politicians who don't get it - they do - but too often their voices are not the voices we hear. Both sides have their base - voters who will vote Democratic or Republican no matter what - but I really feel that the winner of the next election will be the candidate (and the party) that can speak to those in the middle.
"If they believed in a place called Kokomo, then so did I." - Michael Edward Love

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 02 Jan 2019, 1:42pm

Flex wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 12:35pm
WestwayKid wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 11:56am
My question is how important is it to court the working class/middle America? My gut says it is very important. Warren plays well to the Democratic base - but can she reach those outside of that base? I don't know - but I kind of worry she can't. HRC did a poor job connecting with middle America (in my opinion). I felt like she took their vote for granted as in "I'm the Democratic candidate and Democrats always take care of the working class, so I know I already have your vote" and that is the wrong way to look at it. I think Warren is more astute and genuine than HRC in that regard, but do we live in a country where a New England Liberal can still sway the common man and woman?
I like to think that at least some segment of the old working class coalition will be interested in her anti-big business bona fides (which, grading on the extremely lousy curve that is American politics, aren't bad) and genuine (as opposed to mostly fake, as with Chillary), robust support for unions and labor organizing.

I'm open to alternative names to Warren who have those credentials and may be better on other issues or building a broader coalition, but I'm not sure that person is there on the Dems bench.
I agree - and I hope this is true.
"If they believed in a place called Kokomo, then so did I." - Michael Edward Love

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Silent Majority » 07 Jan 2019, 4:39pm

No politician can be relied upon, but I love Ocasio-Cortez right now.
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