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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 14 Nov 2018, 5:27pm
by Marky Dread
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:07pm
Hold another referendum, ranked ballot, with the various proposals including status quo, then bind lawmakers to the result.
See this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
But if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.
You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 14 Nov 2018, 5:57pm
by Dr. Medulla
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:07pm
Hold another referendum, ranked ballot, with the various proposals including status quo, then bind lawmakers to the result.
See this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
But if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.
You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 14 Nov 2018, 6:11pm
by Marky Dread
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:07pm
Hold another referendum, ranked ballot, with the various proposals including status quo, then bind lawmakers to the result.
See this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
But if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.
You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 14 Nov 2018, 6:20pm
by Dr. Medulla
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pm
See this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
But if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.
You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.
If the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 14 Nov 2018, 6:26pm
by Marky Dread
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pm
But if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.
You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.
If the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.
I don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 2:18pm
by dave202
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:26pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pm
You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.
If the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.
I don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?
There wasn't a majority here in Scotland, we voted to stay in bigger numbers than the 'Yes' vote won on a national basis (% wise). We were also lied to a couple of years earlier when we were told the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote 'No' in our referendum for our own country. This episode has swayed a lot of the deluded Scots who will not fall for that again.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 2:52pm
by 101Walterton
Brexit would be a lot less painful if every time they say Ireland on the news they don’t say it in a ridiculous OTT Irish accent!!!
What is with that? No one says Wales in a Welsh accent (apart from the Welsh) or Scotland, America, Australia so why Ireland.
Or is this just a NZ thing?
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:12pm
by Marky Dread
dave202 wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:18pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:26pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pm
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.
If the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.
I don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?
There wasn't a majority here in Scotland, we voted to stay in bigger numbers than the 'Yes' vote won on a national basis (% wise). We were also lied to a couple of years earlier when we were told the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote 'No' in our referendum for our own country. This episode has swayed a lot of the deluded Scots who will not fall for that again.
Yep I hear you mate. I purposely only mentioned England further up the thread. Scotland should be recognised as it's own country with devolution and become the automous body it craves to be. I would happily become a Scot regards to Brexit.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:13pm
by Marky Dread
101Walterton wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:52pm
Brexit would be a lot less painful if every time they say Ireland on the news they don’t say it in a ridiculous OTT Irish accent!!!
What is with that? No one says Wales in a Welsh accent (apart from the Welsh) or Scotland, America, Australia so why Ireland.
Or is this just a NZ thing?
I've not noticed it on the news here must be NZ thing.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:28pm
by 101Walterton
Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 3:13pm
101Walterton wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:52pm
Brexit would be a lot less painful if every time they say Ireland on the news they don’t say it in a ridiculous OTT Irish accent!!!
What is with that? No one says Wales in a Welsh accent (apart from the Welsh) or Scotland, America, Australia so why Ireland.
Or is this just a NZ thing?
I've not noticed it on the news here must be NZ thing.
All the plastic Paddies do it now as well. They kiss the Blarney Stone and get pissed on Guinness in Dublin and all of a sudden they can’t pronounce Ireland. It really annoys me. Get off my lawn!!!
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 11:32am
by dave202
Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 3:12pm
dave202 wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:18pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:26pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pm
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.
If the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.
I don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?
There wasn't a majority here in Scotland, we voted to stay in bigger numbers than the 'Yes' vote won on a national basis (% wise). We were also lied to a couple of years earlier when we were told the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote 'No' in our referendum for our own country. This episode has swayed a lot of the deluded Scots who will not fall for that again.
Yep I hear you mate. I purposely only mentioned England further up the thread. Scotland should be recognised as it's own country with devolution and become the automous body it craves to be. I would happily become a Scot regards to Brexit.
Good to hear. I'm not a 'Nationalist at all costs', but I just think we are a nation and able to self-govern, and the (slight) difference is better served by looking after ourselves.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 4:53pm
by 101Walterton
Isn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 5:48pm
by Silent Majority
101Walterton wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 4:53pm
Isn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
Not with the DUP the only thing keeping the Tories in power.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 7:19pm
by Marky Dread
Silent Majority wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 5:48pm
101Walterton wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 4:53pm
Isn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
Not with the DUP the only thing keeping the Tories in power.
This.
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 8:42pm
by 101Walterton
Marky Dread wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 7:19pm
Silent Majority wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 5:48pm
101Walterton wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 4:53pm
Isn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
Not with the DUP the only thing keeping the Tories in power.
This.
Aren’t the DUP against Brexit?
I know politicians don’t want unified Ireland but the Irish on both sides dont want a border between them. That is a good start.