No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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BostonBeaneater
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by BostonBeaneater »

So the lawyer in NYC who threw a hissy fit in the luncheonette yesterday tried to go for a walk.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 May 2018, 2:31pm
Marky Dread wrote:
17 May 2018, 1:27pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 May 2018, 1:16pm
Marky Dread wrote:
17 May 2018, 1:00pm
JennyB wrote:
17 May 2018, 12:31pm

I vote for the latter.
I always thought that was fact.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Jesus fucking Christ - I have a new coworker. You know the type - think they are hilarious and irreverent, when, really, they are just annoying and you are trying to get your god damn grant proposal finished before the deadline. Anyway, here is a sample conversation held this morning:

Annoying Coworker: I told my son that he couldn't watch a superhero cartoon this weekend.
JennyB: Why?
ACW: It's called "Black Lightening." That's fine, but it had TWO scenes where white cops pulled over black guys.
JB: I think that's pretty reflective of everyday occurrences.
ACW: But it's telling my son that all white cops are bad, and now he's ashamed to be white.
JB: (Wanting to say "he should be," but refraining) I don't think that is what the show is implying at all. I think it's good for kids to have their experiences validated by pop culture, that's all.
ACW: And get this, Black Lightening's assistant is white.
JB: You know, there *are* black people in this world with white assistants. Regardless, it's good to see the narrative flipped for once.
ACW: (of course she says this) I just don't understand. I don't care if you are black, white, purple or green...
JB: OK

Keep in mind that we are a progressive, Jewish women's organization. She is not Jewish and has also said some questionable things about Jewish people - not anything overtly anti-Semitic, but borderline. Racism is also one of our big issue focuses at this organization.

Should I go to my boss with this? The problem is, my boss is a raging jerk, so I don't necessarily want to get her involved. What would you all do?
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:06am
Jesus fucking Christ - I have a new coworker. You know the type - think they are hilarious and irreverent, when, really, they are just annoying and you are trying to get your god damn grant proposal finished before the deadline.
It's almost like I was just hired as your co-worker! :shifty:
Should I go to my boss with this? The problem is, my boss is a raging jerk, so I don't necessarily want to get her involved. What would you all do?
Reporting your concerns should mean that it'll be documented in case something more egregious does happen, but that's probably best-case scenario if your boss is a tool. Otherwise, my strategy is pretty much what you did. I'm not confrontational in the sense of being aggressive or, especially, proselytizing, but I put forward my position and, if the person is amenable to conversation, I keep it going, trying to expose the weak points in their position and hoping they make the next step. When your co-worker said she doesn't care about race, that was an opening to suggest that if that were the case, she shouldn't have been bothered by the race constellation in the cartoon. But that's if you could sense that a conversation was desired.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:45am
JennyB wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:06am
Jesus fucking Christ - I have a new coworker. You know the type - think they are hilarious and irreverent, when, really, they are just annoying and you are trying to get your god damn grant proposal finished before the deadline.
It's almost like I was just hired as your co-worker! :shifty:
Should I go to my boss with this? The problem is, my boss is a raging jerk, so I don't necessarily want to get her involved. What would you all do?
Reporting your concerns should mean that it'll be documented in case something more egregious does happen, but that's probably best-case scenario if your boss is a tool. Otherwise, my strategy is pretty much what you did. I'm not confrontational in the sense of being aggressive or, especially, proselytizing, but I put forward my position and, if the person is amenable to conversation, I keep it going, trying to expose the weak points in their position and hoping they make the next step. When your co-worker said she doesn't care about race, that was an opening to suggest that if that were the case, she shouldn't have been bothered by the race constellation in the cartoon. But that's if you could sense that a conversation was desired.
I think I will talk to her. And she is the volunteer manager, so for all intents and purposes, she is the face of the organization for a lot of people. So we need to make sure she's not saying shit like this in front of them. And I like your suggestion about how to respond when she implies that she's "color blind." That's generally a code word for racist in my book.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by oliver »

JennyB wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:06am
I don't care if you are black, white, purple or green...
Has this ever been said by someone who isn't racist?
See also: "I tell it like it is" and "I don't mean to be offensive but... "
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

If you have an employee handbook or similar document, I'd take a scan through that before reporting them just to see if there's a specific rule or violation you can say was being violated. Always helps to discuss rules when talking to the managerial level, it seems.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

oliver wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:52am
JennyB wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:06am
I don't care if you are black, white, purple or green...
Has this ever been said by someone who isn't racist?
See also: "I tell it like it is" and "I don't mean to be offensive but... "
Exactly.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

oliver wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:52am
Has this ever been said by someone who isn't racist?
See also: "I tell it like it is" and "I don't mean to be offensive but... "
"I'm an equal opportunity offender."
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:53am
oliver wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:52am
Has this ever been said by someone who isn't racist?
See also: "I tell it like it is" and "I don't mean to be offensive but... "
"I'm an equal opportunity offender."
The rationalization of every stand-up whose routine involves punching down.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

JennyB wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:06am
Jesus fucking Christ - I have a new coworker. You know the type - think they are hilarious and irreverent, when, really, they are just annoying and you are trying to get your god damn grant proposal finished before the deadline. Anyway, here is a sample conversation held this morning:

Annoying Coworker: I told my son that he couldn't watch a superhero cartoon this weekend.
JennyB: Why?
ACW: It's called "Black Lightening." That's fine, but it had TWO scenes where white cops pulled over black guys.
JB: I think that's pretty reflective of everyday occurrences.
ACW: But it's telling my son that all white cops are bad, and now he's ashamed to be white.
JB: (Wanting to say "he should be," but refraining) I don't think that is what the show is implying at all. I think it's good for kids to have their experiences validated by pop culture, that's all.
ACW: And get this, Black Lightening's assistant is white.
JB: You know, there *are* black people in this world with white assistants. Regardless, it's good to see the narrative flipped for once.
ACW: (of course she says this) I just don't understand. I don't care if you are black, white, purple or green...
JB: OK

Keep in mind that we are a progressive, Jewish women's organization. She is not Jewish and has also said some questionable things about Jewish people - not anything overtly anti-Semitic, but borderline. Racism is also one of our big issue focuses at this organization.

Should I go to my boss with this? The problem is, my boss is a raging jerk, so I don't necessarily want to get her involved. What would you all do?
Constructive Marky says...Ignorance is bliss.
Non-constructive Marky says ...punch her in the throat and chuck her out of your office post haste. Oh now wait a second violence against women is a most terrible thing! But wait violence against a stupidly dumb women by another women! I wonder what the Black Lightening would do?

Third option...feel sorry for her and re-educate.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Marky Dread wrote:
21 May 2018, 4:52pm
JennyB wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:06am
Jesus fucking Christ - I have a new coworker. You know the type - think they are hilarious and irreverent, when, really, they are just annoying and you are trying to get your god damn grant proposal finished before the deadline. Anyway, here is a sample conversation held this morning:

Annoying Coworker: I told my son that he couldn't watch a superhero cartoon this weekend.
JennyB: Why?
ACW: It's called "Black Lightening." That's fine, but it had TWO scenes where white cops pulled over black guys.
JB: I think that's pretty reflective of everyday occurrences.
ACW: But it's telling my son that all white cops are bad, and now he's ashamed to be white.
JB: (Wanting to say "he should be," but refraining) I don't think that is what the show is implying at all. I think it's good for kids to have their experiences validated by pop culture, that's all.
ACW: And get this, Black Lightening's assistant is white.
JB: You know, there *are* black people in this world with white assistants. Regardless, it's good to see the narrative flipped for once.
ACW: (of course she says this) I just don't understand. I don't care if you are black, white, purple or green...
JB: OK

Keep in mind that we are a progressive, Jewish women's organization. She is not Jewish and has also said some questionable things about Jewish people - not anything overtly anti-Semitic, but borderline. Racism is also one of our big issue focuses at this organization.

Should I go to my boss with this? The problem is, my boss is a raging jerk, so I don't necessarily want to get her involved. What would you all do?
Constructive Marky says...Ignorance is bliss.
Non-constructive Marky says ...punch her in the throat and chuck her out of your office post haste. Oh now wait a second violence against women is a most terrible thing! But wait violence against a stupidly dumb women by another women! I wonder what the Black Lightening would do?

Third option...feel sorry for her and re-educate.
All three of those options have crossed my mind.

I am going to talk to her myself before I go to our boss, if I end up doing so at all. As I mentioned, our boss is an asshole. I think if she hears from a rational person that what she said was awful, it will give her something to think about. I don't think it came from a place of malice, but rather ignorance. We shall see.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

JennyB wrote:
22 May 2018, 9:22am
Marky Dread wrote:
21 May 2018, 4:52pm
JennyB wrote:
21 May 2018, 10:06am
Jesus fucking Christ - I have a new coworker. You know the type - think they are hilarious and irreverent, when, really, they are just annoying and you are trying to get your god damn grant proposal finished before the deadline. Anyway, here is a sample conversation held this morning:

Annoying Coworker: I told my son that he couldn't watch a superhero cartoon this weekend.
JennyB: Why?
ACW: It's called "Black Lightening." That's fine, but it had TWO scenes where white cops pulled over black guys.
JB: I think that's pretty reflective of everyday occurrences.
ACW: But it's telling my son that all white cops are bad, and now he's ashamed to be white.
JB: (Wanting to say "he should be," but refraining) I don't think that is what the show is implying at all. I think it's good for kids to have their experiences validated by pop culture, that's all.
ACW: And get this, Black Lightening's assistant is white.
JB: You know, there *are* black people in this world with white assistants. Regardless, it's good to see the narrative flipped for once.
ACW: (of course she says this) I just don't understand. I don't care if you are black, white, purple or green...
JB: OK

Keep in mind that we are a progressive, Jewish women's organization. She is not Jewish and has also said some questionable things about Jewish people - not anything overtly anti-Semitic, but borderline. Racism is also one of our big issue focuses at this organization.

Should I go to my boss with this? The problem is, my boss is a raging jerk, so I don't necessarily want to get her involved. What would you all do?
Constructive Marky says...Ignorance is bliss.
Non-constructive Marky says ...punch her in the throat and chuck her out of your office post haste. Oh now wait a second violence against women is a most terrible thing! But wait violence against a stupidly dumb women by another women! I wonder what the Black Lightening would do?

Third option...feel sorry for her and re-educate.
All three of those options have crossed my mind.

I am going to talk to her myself before I go to our boss, if I end up doing so at all. As I mentioned, our boss is an asshole. I think if she hears from a rational person that what she said was awful, it will give her something to think about. I don't think it came from a place of malice, but rather ignorance. We shall see.
Best of luck. Let's hope she can see the error in her ways. I make no excuses for racist behaviour but I know many people with a good heart that are stuck with a narrow minded view of things from their upbringings and surroundings and having accepted certain talk as normal. A gentle prod every now and then usually sorts a better way of thinking and occasionally a good hard slap is required.

A friend I've known for many years (40) will often blurt out something racist and moan about something he disagrees with and I often have to put him straight. He is one of the nicest guys you could meet and gives up his time freely for all manner of purposes. Yet still there is this racist element in him that rears it's ugly head every so often. He genuinely means no harm and to him complaining about someone being a different colour is just like calling someone a nerd. He is my friend regardless and I would not turn my back on him just sometimes I have to give him a dig!
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by BostonBeaneater »

I am going through a painful process of distancing myself from a very old friend on account of his joining the Trump cult and penchant for forwarding racist bullshit about people that aren't white like us. He was a hippy in collage and smoked tons of grass. When 9/11 happened he was unemployed and watching too much Fox news. He joined the Army and served two tours in Iraq. At first he leaned a little to the right which I attributed to the military but could deal with since he still seemed reasonable. Over the past three to four years a paranoia has gripped him. He's worried about brown immigrants from the south and black gang bangers. He lives out n the country near the New Hampshire border with his (immigrant) wife and mixed race daughter. It's all very confusing. I wonder if there some PTSD going on (I am fairly sure but am not a real doctor). Damn near everyone I know, his family included, can't make a damn bit of sense of all this.

No real point to all this, just venting a little.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
22 May 2018, 11:39am
I am going through a painful process of distancing myself from a very old friend on account of his joining the Trump cult and penchant for forwarding racist bullshit about people that aren't white like us. He was a hippy in collage and smoked tons of grass. When 9/11 happened he was unemployed and watching too much Fox news. He joined the Army and served two tours in Iraq. At first he leaned a little to the right which I attributed to the military but could deal with since he still seemed reasonable. Over the past three to four years a paranoia has gripped him. He's worried about brown immigrants from the south and black gang bangers. He lives out n the country near the New Hampshire border with his (immigrant) wife and mixed race daughter. It's all very confusing. I wonder if there some PTSD going on (I am fairly sure but am not a real doctor). Damn near everyone I know, his family included, can't make a damn bit of sense of all this.

No real point to all this, just venting a little.
I've mentioned before I had ended a very good friendship over racism. He was always a bit on the authoritarian side—very pro cop—tho jokey enough that I could rationalize enough to ignore or explain it away. After Ferguson and Black Lives Matter gained momentum, he became too overt about it. Any black person killed by a cop was asking for it. If they just cleaned up their act the cops wouldn't target them. If you obey a cop, he won't shoot you or beat your ass. Protesters are a bunch of whiners looking to blame someone else for their own flaws. And it got to the point where I couldn't explain it away and that I couldn't think of myself as a moral person if I provided this guy friendship and support when he is so unsympathetic to a marginalized and persecuted people. I had told him years ago that I would and had ended friendships over moral issues, something he didn't agree with. But that's what I did. I hate that it came to that because I greatly valued his friendship—he was a confidant and taught me a lot about writing—but being committed to one's values often forces these undesirable decisions.
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