Cut The Crap

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
Inder
User avatar
corecore vanguard
Posts: 7982
Joined: 14 Jun 2008, 3:28pm

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Inder » 14 Nov 2017, 1:55pm

matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 11:32am
daredevil wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 6:40pm
Sex Mad Roar and Do It Now would be how the rest of the album sounded. Weren't these produced by Joe and Nick?
Still Joe and Bernie, just allowed Pete to finally play and then gave him the worst drum sound ever.

I'm okay with how things worked out because for me, the November 83 demos and the live takes show that the songs weren't very good. Dictator is only interesting in its shitshow clown orgy arrangement on the album. Dirty Punk, We Are the Clash, Cool Under Heat are all mediocre in any form. The four on the floor rage rock of Three Card live isn't quite as effective in its ska arrangement on the album (that they carried into 85), but it's still pretty fun. Are You Ready is marginally better live, as is This Is England. In the end, we are talking about a handful of good songs that would make for an album slightly better than Earthquake Weather for me.

Holy wrong-o.

The 83 demos are practically the first time the band (minus Vince) worked out the new songs. They're interesting to listen to, but hardly representative of the material. You can obviously hear how the arrangements evolve and develop through the winter/spring 84 tours.

And Are You Ready For War is immense. Probably better than half the tracks on Combat Rock.

At any rate, far better to go out in the incomprehensible, baffling noise of Life is Wild than the shuddering mawkishness of Death is a Star imo.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 26119
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Heston » 14 Nov 2017, 1:58pm

Inder wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 1:55pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 11:32am
daredevil wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 6:40pm
Sex Mad Roar and Do It Now would be how the rest of the album sounded. Weren't these produced by Joe and Nick?
Still Joe and Bernie, just allowed Pete to finally play and then gave him the worst drum sound ever.

I'm okay with how things worked out because for me, the November 83 demos and the live takes show that the songs weren't very good. Dictator is only interesting in its shitshow clown orgy arrangement on the album. Dirty Punk, We Are the Clash, Cool Under Heat are all mediocre in any form. The four on the floor rage rock of Three Card live isn't quite as effective in its ska arrangement on the album (that they carried into 85), but it's still pretty fun. Are You Ready is marginally better live, as is This Is England. In the end, we are talking about a handful of good songs that would make for an album slightly better than Earthquake Weather for me.

Holy wrong-o.

The 83 demos are practically the first time the band (minus Vince) worked out the new songs. They're interesting to listen to, but hardly representative of the material. You can obviously hear how the arrangements evolve and develop through the winter/spring 84 tours.

And Are You Ready For War is immense. Probably better than half the tracks on Combat Rock.
Correct about Are You Red...y but only as it was released on CtC.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

Low Down Low
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1191
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Low Down Low » 14 Nov 2017, 2:26pm

I'd say Are You Ready is better than Red Angel Dragnet and Death Is a Star and possibly on a par with Atom Tan. But that's about it. Personally I'd much rather the demo version, love Nick's guitar work on it.

Inder
User avatar
corecore vanguard
Posts: 7982
Joined: 14 Jun 2008, 3:28pm

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Inder » 14 Nov 2017, 2:35pm



>

Combat Rock Side 2 + Dragnet.

Thank you.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 19925
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by matedog » 14 Nov 2017, 2:56pm

Inder wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 2:35pm


>

Combat Rock Side 2 + Dragnet.

Thank you.
Yeah, that's a solid tune, particularly in that arrangement (sorry, no Hoyston here).

The Nov 83 demos show the songs in their essence. We Are The Clash and Dictator are not interesting melodically, lyrically, or structurally and they never changed them much from these arrangements. Ready and Rain get massive overhauls and are so much better because of it, but I don't think much else changed besides some cut time antics on This Is England. Had they punched up the other tunes similarly, you would potentially have a solid album.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

WestwayKid
User avatar
Bang Ice Geezer
Posts: 190
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by WestwayKid » 14 Nov 2017, 3:28pm

I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.

101Walterton
User avatar
The Best
Posts: 14827
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 5:36pm
Location: Volcanic Rock In The Pacific

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by 101Walterton » 14 Nov 2017, 4:17pm

WestwayKid wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 3:28pm
I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.
You can’t polish a turd.

white man
User avatar
Long Time Jerk
Posts: 721
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 6:12pm
Location: Penshaw Manor

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by white man » 14 Nov 2017, 4:51pm

101Walterton wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 4:17pm
WestwayKid wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 3:28pm
I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.
You can’t polish a turd.
No, but you can roll it in glitter.

101Walterton
User avatar
The Best
Posts: 14827
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 5:36pm
Location: Volcanic Rock In The Pacific

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by 101Walterton » 14 Nov 2017, 5:29pm

white man wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 4:51pm
101Walterton wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 4:17pm
WestwayKid wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 3:28pm
I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.
You can’t polish a turd.
No, but you can roll it in glitter.
That would make it shitter.

TeddyB Not Logged In
User avatar
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1536
Joined: 06 Feb 2009, 8:42pm

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 14 Nov 2017, 5:43pm

C'mon, Death is a Star as originally envisioned at the end of Rat Patrol is like being outside of Kurtz's cave after he's been offed. Life is Wild is like a song Joe whipped up for an 80's teen rom com that got passed over.

I mean, neither of those is my favorite song, but for me the song writing for RP/CR includes four classics and three or four "wiggy" winners. Though Glyn Johns successfully cleaned these up for public consumption, the context was severely damaged by his pop intent, as exemplified by the album's title change. The pool of material Joe had to choose from for CTC includes two good songs and two or three other decent ones amid the muck. The context only further sunk him.

Inder
User avatar
corecore vanguard
Posts: 7982
Joined: 14 Jun 2008, 3:28pm

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Inder » 14 Nov 2017, 6:17pm

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 5:43pm
C'mon, Death is a Star as originally envisioned at the end of Rat Patrol is like being outside of Kurtz's cave after he's been offed. Life is Wild is like a song Joe whipped up for an 80's teen rom com that got passed over.

I mean, neither of those is my favorite song, but for me the song writing for RP/CR includes four classics and three or four "wiggy" winners. Though Glyn Johns successfully cleaned these up for public consumption, the context was severely damaged by his pop intent, as exemplified by the album's title change. The pool of material Joe had to choose from for CTC includes two good songs and two or three other decent ones amid the muck. The context only further sunk him.
I dunno — "And I was gripped [snap!] by that deadly phantom" makes me recoil every time I hear it. I get that it's a vibe thing, but it probably made more sense on a spacey Rat Patrol than a slick Combat Rock.

There were definitely some interesting possibilities with Joe's post-Mick songs — Glue Zombie has some neat slow-burn rhythms and changes, Jericho's a rockabilly steamroller, Ready For War is fantastic Clash funk. Later tracks like Movers and Shakers/Cool Under Heat/Dirty Punk/North and South are serviceable, but the band didn't really have the time, musicianship and chemistry to elevate weaker material. The couple of tracks that work on Cut the Crap really come down to Joe's performance.

TeddyB Not Logged In
User avatar
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1536
Joined: 06 Feb 2009, 8:42pm

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 14 Nov 2017, 7:09pm

Yeah, Joe's performance is definitely what elevated some post-Mick Clash songs, as it later elevated some solo material. Every time I saw him play, it always came flooding that Joe was still great at the things he did, but that the rest of it (songs, context, playing style) was all basically missing. The only one I ever felt was value added was when Tymon was there, even though the keyboard player was okay.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 26119
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Heston » 14 Nov 2017, 8:29pm

When are we gonna realise the major problem with CtC is the mix and production? It is really not a bad set of songs. Interesting chord changes, tight arrangements, Joe sounding great, and some very serviceable lyrics. The tunes are there. Are you telling me Are You Red..y isn't structurally and melodically better than This Is Radio Clash for example? Play To Win beats Mensforth Hill and Death Is a Star into the ground as an abstract piece.

We can never judge CtC against the Clash's other material until we hear it in a semi-professional mix. I doubt even London Calling would have sounded great with a shit drum machine and Bernie Rhodes producing.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71164
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Dr. Medulla » 14 Nov 2017, 9:00pm

The fantasy that CtC could have been respectable, even good, is the Prester John myth of some people here. The material was mediocre at best and made comical by Bernie's technology boner. Just let it go.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Inder
User avatar
corecore vanguard
Posts: 7982
Joined: 14 Jun 2008, 3:28pm

Re: Cut The Crap

Post by Inder » 14 Nov 2017, 9:08pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 9:00pm
The fantasy that CtC could have been respectable, even good, is the Prester John myth of some people here. The material was mediocre at best and made comical by Bernie's technology boner. Just let it go.
I think some people enjoy discussing it because they like the songs and find the story behind the album fascinating.

It can't always be Swans 'n' Sox, buddy! 😘

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests