What was the rift inside the Clash?

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TeddyB Not Logged In
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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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muppet hi fi wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 1:45am
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 1:36am
The political and social atmosphere/popular culture has/had turned away from people being interested in things like The Clash. Maybe the tide is turning back.
Really? Wow. I'd have thought it would be just the opposite in these weird and cruel times.
And how the Clash's catalog has always seemed (to me) like it was written, played and recorded five minutes ago...

Teddy - are you living in/visiting the UK at moment?
No, I just read and get a lot of phone reports from MJ.

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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Bazarboy, of course. We're discussing interest in the Clash as a metaphor for the (hopefully) politicized counter-culture. I didn't mean to bring up how many records they still sell, or to suggest there's no newer music.

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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Very small sample size—around 40—but the last two years I've taught my rock seminar, I've asked students their favourite song and artists. Not one picked anything remotely punk and only two later showed some familiarity with punk (and that was more 90s pop-punk). Far more interest in "classic rock" (i.e., 60s and 70s big name bands).
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 4:36pm
Very small sample size—around 40—but the last two years I've taught my rock seminar, I've asked students their favourite song and artists. Not one picked anything remotely punk and only two later showed some familiarity with punk (and that was more 90s pop-punk). Far more interest in "classic rock" (i.e., 60s and 70s big name bands).
Sure, and those groups were bigger than punk anyway, and had a wider audience appeal. But I'm talking more about politics and sociology of popular culture. The Clash serves us as a talking point because, well, we're sort of here to talk about them

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 5:35pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 4:36pm
Very small sample size—around 40—but the last two years I've taught my rock seminar, I've asked students their favourite song and artists. Not one picked anything remotely punk and only two later showed some familiarity with punk (and that was more 90s pop-punk). Far more interest in "classic rock" (i.e., 60s and 70s big name bands).
Sure, and those groups were bigger than punk anyway, and had a wider audience appeal. But I'm talking more about politics and sociology of popular culture. The Clash serves us as a talking point because, well, we're sort of here to talk about them
But that's my point, tho perhaps not well expressed—these late millennials were pretty oblivious to more politically charged music. Going further, I'd describe most students' approach to music as unconscious hedonistic consumption. One thing I've asked them to consider is whether more choice—more sub-sub-sub-genres and ease of acquiring records—has been a good thing if it breaks down community development. That is, when there is an almost endless amount of variety that can cater to pretty much everyone's individual taste, there is less urgency to explore new terrain and link up with fans of other styles. That necessarily makes it harder to build wider links with people, making music far more of an individualist experience. With the exception of two or three, everyone saw more choice as better even if it hinders the social/political—it's their own pleasure that trumps all else. That's not conducive to more socially conscious cultural consumption or creation.
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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 3:53pm
Bazarboy, of course. We're discussing interest in the Clash as a metaphor for the (hopefully) politicized counter-culture. I didn't mean to bring up how many records they still sell, or to suggest there's no newer music.
I mentioned how many records they still sell but that was more a reply to your comment about Stranger Things being a big deal for Mick. Let's face it, apart from about 1981 to 1988, the Clash have always been critically and commercially acclaimed in the UK and have plenty of influential ears listening to them. By default that will be getting their politics over to a lot of people.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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Thanks everyone for your comments. I hear you. Meanwhile, all of conscious West London is focused on Grenfell Tower. :(

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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I just read in Redemption Song that Chris talked with Bernie way back in 1978 and Bernie said "Mick is my biggest problem."

I wonder what he meant at that point.

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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Mick didn't kowtow to Bernie. Bernie tried to replace Mick. Mick got the band to fire Bernie. Two years later, Joe brought Bernie back. Mick wouldn't sign a new contract with Bernie. Bernie got the band to sack Mick. The band fell apart.

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
02 Jul 2017, 3:25am
Mick didn't kowtow to Bernie. Bernie tried to replace Mick. Mick got the band to fire Bernie. Two years later, Joe brought Bernie back. Mick wouldn't sign a new contract with Bernie. Bernie got the band to sack Mick. The band fell apart.
Is this the Return of the Return of the Last Gang in Town? Definitely the best version yet ;)

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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Low Down Low wrote:
02 Jul 2017, 9:21am
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
02 Jul 2017, 3:25am
Mick didn't kowtow to Bernie. Bernie tried to replace Mick. Mick got the band to fire Bernie. Two years later, Joe brought Bernie back. Mick wouldn't sign a new contract with Bernie. Bernie got the band to sack Mick. The band fell apart.
Is this the Return of the Return of the Last Gang in Town? Definitely the best version yet ;)
The Story of the Clash, Volume 2.

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 1:36am
The political and social atmosphere/popular culture has/had turned away from people being interested in things like The Clash. Maybe the tide is turning back.
The tide is absolutely turning back. It's not going unnoticed in America that Clampdown is an an exact description of what we have going on. I feel like the Clash are achieving an importance that is based more from a political standpoint that as pop stars.

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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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Going back to Rude Boy depicting ructions in the band.... I never got that at the time, and having watched it again on TV the other week I still don't. The band come across as a pretty united group - recording, performing, certainly sharing the same ideology and letting 'Ray Gange' know it.
The more you watch it, the more obvious it is which scenes are enacted, and which are genuine documentary footage of actual events.
The bit where Mick arrives outside the court is genuine, and he's late due to him being given the wrong address - he lets Caroline Coon know it, too.
His late entrance at Rehearsal Rehearsals to be greeted by a sullen Joe and Paul looks much more acted out, as does Johnny Green's phone conversation with the PA supplier. It all sets the scene for a 'behind the scenes with the band' sequence, and makes it a bit more interesting than a straightforward shot of the band simply running through a song.
My favourite Mick-ism though is still the furious 'Get off the fucking stage...' yelled into the camera lens filming him mid-performance... followed by the cut to Ray scuttling about untangling cables, obviously shot another time, as if Mick was shouting at him. If the filmmakers put that in as a joke - cos it can't possibly be taken as real - it worked, cos I laugh out loud every time I see it.
Right. That's enough film studies drivel for now.
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Re: What was the rift inside the Clash?

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JohnS wrote:
11 Jul 2017, 5:52am
Going back to Rude Boy depicting ructions in the band.... I never got that at the time, and having watched it again on TV the other week I still don't. The band come across as a pretty united group - recording, performing, certainly sharing the same ideology and letting 'Ray Gange' know it.
The more you watch it, the more obvious it is which scenes are enacted, and which are genuine documentary footage of actual events.
The bit where Mick arrives outside the court is genuine, and he's late due to him being given the wrong address - he lets Caroline Coon know it, too.
His late entrance at Rehearsal Rehearsals to be greeted by a sullen Joe and Paul looks much more acted out, as does Johnny Green's phone conversation with the PA supplier. It all sets the scene for a 'behind the scenes with the band' sequence, and makes it a bit more interesting than a straightforward shot of the band simply running through a song.
My favourite Mick-ism though is still the furious 'Get off the fucking stage...' yelled into the camera lens filming him mid-performance... followed by the cut to Ray scuttling about untangling cables, obviously shot another time, as if Mick was shouting at him. If the filmmakers put that in as a joke - cos it can't possibly be taken as real - it worked, cos I laugh out loud every time I see it.
Right. That's enough film studies drivel for now.
Agree with all of that, John.

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