What was the rift inside the Clash?

[Flex]

White Riot exists in a specific context that I'm not sure exists anymore, as such. So, yeah, writing and recording the song in 2017 would mean something different and probably something kinda ugly. But, it wasn't written in 2017.

[matedog]

White Riot exists in a specific context that I'm not sure exists anymore, as such. So, yeah, writing and recording the song in 2017 would mean something different and probably something kinda ugly. But, it wasn't written in 2017.

I don't know, I mean isn't the gist that there is a class of white people exploited by the rich and ruling that should be fighting back against the ruling class but isn't because they are too complacent? That seems relevant today.

[Dr. Medulla]

White Riot exists in a specific context that I'm not sure exists anymore, as such. So, yeah, writing and recording the song in 2017 would mean something different and probably something kinda ugly. But, it wasn't written in 2017.

I don't know, I mean isn't the gist that there is a class of white people exploited by the rich and ruling that should be fighting back against the ruling class but isn't because they are too complacent? That seems relevant today.

In today's climate, a song called White Riot would raise Morrissey-like connotations.

[matedog]

White Riot exists in a specific context that I'm not sure exists anymore, as such. So, yeah, writing and recording the song in 2017 would mean something different and probably something kinda ugly. But, it wasn't written in 2017.

I don't know, I mean isn't the gist that there is a class of white people exploited by the rich and ruling that should be fighting back against the ruling class but isn't because they are too complacent? That seems relevant today.

In today's climate, a song called White Riot would raise Morrissey-like connotations.

It did back in the day too. It'd probably be a stronger reaction and stronger level of misinterpretation though.

[Dr. Medulla]

White Riot exists in a specific context that I'm not sure exists anymore, as such. So, yeah, writing and recording the song in 2017 would mean something different and probably something kinda ugly. But, it wasn't written in 2017.

I don't know, I mean isn't the gist that there is a class of white people exploited by the rich and ruling that should be fighting back against the ruling class but isn't because they are too complacent? That seems relevant today.

In today's climate, a song called White Riot would raise Morrissey-like connotations.

It did back in the day too. It'd probably be a stronger reaction and stronger level of misinterpretation though.

I'd be speaking out of ignorance about the UK context as my knowledge of English history is limited, but in the American context rioting in the 60s and 70s had a connotation, at least on the left, of having revolutionary potential. Calling for a white riot was, in essence, what groups like Weatherman were doing. (And what "White Riot" was saying.) In the current xenophobic context, and one far removed from the 60s, a song called "White Riot" would have an incredibly tough time placing it in that same, leftist, classist revolution.

[threecoffins]

White Riot exists in a specific context that I'm not sure exists anymore, as such. So, yeah, writing and recording the song in 2017 would mean something different and probably something kinda ugly. But, it wasn't written in 2017.

I don't know, I mean isn't the gist that there is a class of white people exploited by the rich and ruling that should be fighting back against the ruling class but isn't because they are too complacent? That seems relevant today.

In today's climate, a song called White Riot would raise Morrissey-like connotations.

It did back in the day too. It'd probably be a stronger reaction and stronger level of misinterpretation though.

I'd be speaking out of ignorance about the UK context as my knowledge of English history is limited, but in the American context rioting in the 60s and 70s had a connotation, at least on the left, of having revolutionary potential. Calling for a white riot was, in essence, what groups like Weatherman were doing. (And what "White Riot" was saying.) In the current xenophobic context, and one far removed from the 60s, a song called "White Riot" would have an incredibly tough time placing it in that same, leftist, classist revolution.

Imagine the White Panther Party today? Good lord haha

[Dr. Medulla]

Imagine the White Panther Party today? Good lord haha

It'd be like those pinhead Soldiers of Odin.

[101Walterton]

I guess today it would be called 'casual racism'?
Both black and white youths downtrodden however whilst the white youths do nothing to make a stance the black youths riot.
I know what Mick / Joe meant when they wrote it and that it was intended as admiration for the action of the black youth over the complacency of the white not a stereotypical assumption that black youths riot and therefore were unlawful.

[Low Down Low]

Ray said he thought it was funny that a black man was singing along with White Riot. He said it's like a white guy singing about Rasta. Mick chastised Ray for saying all that. I'm not sure if Mick needed to do that or not. Early precursor to political correctness?

Funny thing is, I think Joe Strummer was into Rastafarianism.

A band could never release a song like White Riot today. Too distasteful. The world is different.

Its too long since i watched RB so can't comment on that specific incident, but in general I always got the impression of Mick as a guy who had a low threshold for tolerating a lot of the nonsense that went hand in hand with punk culture. One story i remember is the Clash (specifically Mick and Bernie) refusing to let a band play or practice using Clash equipment because they were a bit too keen to stress their punk credentials by sporting assorted nazi regalia. MIck was no saint certainly but think he was good for calling out shit like that, came across to me anyway as a pretty sound judge of people.

[TeddyB Not Logged In]

Mick just watched Rude Boy for the first time in a while as it ran on TV and we discussed the whole Swastika, skinhead, National Front side of punk. He's still not up for it a bit, and still is taken aback by some of the things Ray Gange says in the film, especially with regards to race. He preferred to quote Joe saying "for the many, not the few." I'm sure one of our political historians around here can tell us who said that first. Someone must have said it before Churchill. Anyway, with the election results, Rude Boy getting a public airing, and Stranger Things, he thinks maybe things are turning back a bit toward the Clash.

[Heston]

Mick just watched Rude Boy for the first time in a while as it ran on TV and we discussed the whole Swastika, skinhead, National Front side of punk. He's still not up for it a bit, and still is taken aback by some of the things Ray Gange says in the film, especially with regards to race. He preferred to quote Joe saying "for the many, not the few." I'm sure one of our political historians around here can tell us who said that first. Someone must have said it before Churchill. Anyway, with the election results, Rude Boy getting a public airing, and Stranger Things, he thinks maybe things are turning back a bit toward the Clash.

When did things turn away from the Clash? They seem more popular than ever to me.

A series of deluxe edition reissues might help if Mick is really feeling that way

[TeddyB Not Logged In]

The political and social atmosphere/popular culture has/had turned away from people being interested in things like The Clash. Maybe the tide is turning back.

[muppet hi fi]

The political and social atmosphere/popular culture has/had turned away from people being interested in things like The Clash. Maybe the tide is turning back.

Really? Wow. I'd have thought it would be just the opposite in these weird and cruel times.
And how the Clash's catalog has always seemed (to me) like it was written, played and recorded five minutes ago...

Teddy - are you living in/visiting the UK at moment?

[Heston]

The political and social atmosphere/popular culture has/had turned away from people being interested in things like The Clash. Maybe the tide is turning back.

Really? Wow. I'd have thought it would be just the opposite in these weird and cruel times.
And how the Clash's catalog has always seemed (to me) like it was written, played and recorded five minutes ago...

I tend to agree.

The Clash have sold more records since they split than they did when they were together, and seem to get more respect now too. They are rightly cited as one of the most important bands ever by many bands, artists, media figures etc etc. Still played on the radio and used as a soundtrack to countless television features, racking up millions of plays on YouTube, Spotify and so on.

Can't get my head around why Mick feels they were drifting into obscurity.

[bazarboy75]

Hum... Guys it's 2017
the punk got 40 years now
So many news things appeared since...

Just watched some radiohead gigs lately and man that band is so powerful (there pick is definitly 2009)
i know is not the taste of many here but think about electronic music or hip hop
there is so many great things happened since the clash broke up

My feeling is that the Clash for many many people (journalist !) is stuck in "the punk movement"
to me they are far more than that, punk was 'just" the beginning
and in this way of 'see things" the Clash still revelant today