Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
Low Down Low
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4921
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Low Down Low »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 5:49pm
I agree that the comparisons aren't very useful. Like, you could also state that, had he been spared, Joe would, I'm fully certain, be making interesting and compelling music to this day while Mick, for unknown reasons, is in a hiatus or simply gone into early retirement. I have huge respect for Mick, both as a musician and a human being, but I guess I always found Joe the more fascinating figure, even during the creative wasteland of his fallow years, in fact all the more so during that period because he was working up to something that would turn out to be pretty special. That's just my opinion obviously.
As I recall, most of the BAD vs. Clash stuff seemed to come from the reviewers -- I don't remember anybody in my immediate circle making them. But I still feel they were overblown and not terribly insightful.

I too followed Joe throughout his so-called "wilderness years," though for a man laboring in the wilderness, as he often presented himself, he seemed to keep busy enough, didn't he? :mrgreen:

I, too, kept hoping that he could pull off the home run -- though I also think one reason that he struggled so much during the '80s was that the "lo-fi Luddite" vision that he pursued so doggedly simply didn't fit into the glossy, airbrushed pop landscape in which he was expected to operate (with nary a complaint).

When you read the stuff in Redemption Song about the "suits" demanding demos from him, like any other up-and-comer, during the EW era, for instance -- I can imagine how frustrated he got. I do think some sharper writing -- and better production -- would have made those issues moot, though I also tend to think that the presence of a sympathetic and less intrusive label (in Hellcat) played a big part in making his return more positive, and more successful. Funny how that works, isn't it?

I suspect that Mick may well re-emerge, either when the time seems right, or he finds something that he thinks is worth doing. Obviously, there's no statute of limitations on when (or if) that might occur, so we'll just have to wait and see, I suppose.
I agree with all that Ralph. Another thing I'd throw into the Earthquake Weather mix is that when it was released I think a lot of people listened to it with a Clash mindset and were inevitably disappointed with the end product. Over the years I've seen lots of people list their favourite song on the album as Shouting Street and i think that's telling because it's the most Clash-like song on the album and, if i'm not mistaken, was written around that time. I think there were expectations on Joe that didn't apply to Mick who could go off and do his thing, take it in any direction he wanted, while Joe was left to grapple with the legacy of the Clash. I suppose you could argue on a certain level that there's a neat sense of karma at work there, given how things unspooled with the band. But it does partially explain - at least to me anyway - how Mick was able to hit the ground running while Joe was left stuck in neutral for the guts of a decade or more.

Anyway, I too hope that Mick finds the creative impulse again and, as you say, its never too late.

Low Down Low
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4921
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Low Down Low »

Marky Dread wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 7:14pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 5:58pm
If the Clash were a Ford Escort, Joe would be the motor, Topper would be the carburettor and Spark plugs, Paul would be the Go Fast stripes, spoilers, mag wheels and lowered suspension and Mick would be the power steering, ABS, fuel injector and Electronic Control Units.
...and Bernie would be the fluffy dice hanging from the mirror.
Excellent!

TeddyB Not Logged In
User avatar
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 2013
Joined: 06 Feb 2009, 8:42pm

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

Low Down Low wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 5:00pm
Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 4:47pm
Agreed, and I thought Mick tore ahead of Joe after the Clash and carried the flame. I know BAD aren't everyone's cup of tea but I thought they were great for that first four albums, and I totally fell in love with the debut album. Joe just seemed to wander around without focus for years whilst Mick seemed right on the ball.
Agreed, though I personally thought the BAD-Clash comparisons were silly -- it was a different band and a different era, something I suspect Mick grasped more quickly than Joe, who vacillated, IMHO, between seeming to feel unworthy of greater success on his own, and giving people what he thought they wanted (Earthquake Weather)...which wasn't what he needed. :mrgreen: Or something along those lines.
I agree that the comparisons aren't very useful. Like, you could also state that, had he been spared, Joe would, I'm fully certain, be making interesting and compelling music to this day while Mick, for unknown reasons, is in a hiatus or simply gone into early retirement. I have huge respect for Mick, both as a musician and a human being, but I guess I always found Joe the more fascinating figure, even during the creative wasteland of his fallow years, in fact all the more so during that period because he was working up to something that would turn out to be pretty special. That's just my opinion obviously.
Don’t count Mick out just yet.

TeddyB Not Logged In
User avatar
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 2013
Joined: 06 Feb 2009, 8:42pm

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 5:49pm
I agree that the comparisons aren't very useful. Like, you could also state that, had he been spared, Joe would, I'm fully certain, be making interesting and compelling music to this day while Mick, for unknown reasons, is in a hiatus or simply gone into early retirement. I have huge respect for Mick, both as a musician and a human being, but I guess I always found Joe the more fascinating figure, even during the creative wasteland of his fallow years, in fact all the more so during that period because he was working up to something that would turn out to be pretty special. That's just my opinion obviously.
As I recall, most of the BAD vs. Clash stuff seemed to come from the reviewers -- I don't remember anybody in my immediate circle making them. But I still feel they were overblown and not terribly insightful.

I too followed Joe throughout his so-called "wilderness years," though for a man laboring in the wilderness, as he often presented himself, he seemed to keep busy enough, didn't he? :mrgreen:

I, too, kept hoping that he could pull off the home run -- though I also think one reason that he struggled so much during the '80s was that the "lo-fi Luddite" vision that he pursued so doggedly simply didn't fit into the glossy, airbrushed pop landscape in which he was expected to operate (with nary a complaint).

When you read the stuff in Redemption Song about the "suits" demanding demos from him, like any other up-and-comer, during the EW era, for instance -- I can imagine how frustrated he got. I do think some sharper writing -- and better production -- would have made those issues moot, though I also tend to think that the presence of a sympathetic and less intrusive label (in Hellcat) played a big part in making his return more positive, and more successful. Funny how that works, isn't it?

I suspect that Mick may well re-emerge, either when the time seems right, or he finds something that he thinks is worth doing. Obviously, there's no statute of limitations on when (or if) that might occur, so we'll just have to wait and see, I suppose.
The problem with the “suits” is that Joe got Gary Kurfirst to renegotiate his contract with Sony for him and Joe would be owed a lot of money for an album. That’s why they were reticent to pick up his options. With Hellcat that wasn’t the case but, of course, he would be lucky to break even recording and touring.

I don’t think either Joe, or Mick after he established himself with the first BAD album, were ever keen on “success”. The Clash had defined it as something more than sales.

appleseed1
User avatar
Sightsee MC
Posts: 250
Joined: 04 Jul 2016, 3:08pm

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by appleseed1 »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 9:45pm

Don’t count Mick out just yet.
My hopes are now dialed up to 11. Thanks! :mrgreen:

Chairman Ralph
Long Time Jerk
Posts: 693
Joined: 20 Mar 2009, 10:59pm

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Chairman Ralph »

The problem with the “suits” is that Joe got Gary Kurfirst to renegotiate his contract with Sony for him and Joe would be owed a lot of money for an album. That’s why they were reticent to pick up his options. With Hellcat that wasn’t the case but, of course, he would be lucky to break even recording and touring.
Oh, sure, I suppose, but at least he didn't have them up his nose constantly. He seemed more satisfied with them, at any ratte, judging by the statements he made about them at the time.
Don’t count Mick out just yet.
Definitely! It's easy to forget that Mick had gone through an equally fallow period before re-emerging with Carbon/Silicon in the early 2000s. Based on that, I'd be the last one to count him out! I think it's a question of finding something that makes sense to do, and seeing where it goes. When that day/time comes -- we'll know.
Last edited by Chairman Ralph on 01 Sep 2017, 12:37pm, edited 1 time in total.

TeddyB Not Logged In
User avatar
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 2013
Joined: 06 Feb 2009, 8:42pm

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 10:43pm
The problem with the “suits” is that Joe got Gary Kurfirst to renegotiate his contract with Sony for him and Joe would be owed a lot of money for an album. That’s why they were reticent to pick up his options. With Hellcat that wasn’t the case but, of course, he would be lucky to break even recording and touring.
Oh, sure, I suppose, but at least he didn't have them up his nose constantly. He seemed more satisfied with them, at any ratte, judging the statements he made about them at the time.
Don’t count Mick out just yet.
Definitely! It's easy to forget that Mick had gone through an equally fallow period before re-emerging with Carbon/Silicon in the early 2000s. Based on that, I'd be the last one to count him out! I think it's a question of finding something that makes sense to do, and seeing where it goes. When that day/time comes -- we'll know.
Yes. When the time comes. Stay tuned.

Carpentologist
Dirty Punk
Posts: 76
Joined: 26 Oct 2010, 2:17am

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Carpentologist »

Excuse my crudity here but there is no other way for me to say this...if Mick was to do a solo tour, playing material from the whole of his career, I'd cream my pants!!!

Low Down Low
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4921
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Low Down Low »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 12:40am
Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 10:43pm
The problem with the “suits” is that Joe got Gary Kurfirst to renegotiate his contract with Sony for him and Joe would be owed a lot of money for an album. That’s why they were reticent to pick up his options. With Hellcat that wasn’t the case but, of course, he would be lucky to break even recording and touring.
Oh, sure, I suppose, but at least he didn't have them up his nose constantly. He seemed more satisfied with them, at any ratte, judging the statements he made about them at the time.
Don’t count Mick out just yet.
Definitely! It's easy to forget that Mick had gone through an equally fallow period before re-emerging with Carbon/Silicon in the early 2000s. Based on that, I'd be the last one to count him out! I think it's a question of finding something that makes sense to do, and seeing where it goes. When that day/time comes -- we'll know.
Yes. When the time comes. Stay tuned.
Good stuff.

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 17319
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Kory »

Carpentologist wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 3:41am
Excuse my crudity here but there is no other way for me to say this...if Mick was to do a solo tour, playing material from the whole of his career, I'd cream my pants!!!
Good stuff.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 58881
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 12:40am
Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 10:43pm
The problem with the “suits” is that Joe got Gary Kurfirst to renegotiate his contract with Sony for him and Joe would be owed a lot of money for an album. That’s why they were reticent to pick up his options. With Hellcat that wasn’t the case but, of course, he would be lucky to break even recording and touring.
Oh, sure, I suppose, but at least he didn't have them up his nose constantly. He seemed more satisfied with them, at any ratte, judging the statements he made about them at the time.
Don’t count Mick out just yet.
Definitely! It's easy to forget that Mick had gone through an equally fallow period before re-emerging with Carbon/Silicon in the early 2000s. Based on that, I'd be the last one to count him out! I think it's a question of finding something that makes sense to do, and seeing where it goes. When that day/time comes -- we'll know.
Yes. When the time comes. Stay tuned.
The anticipation is killing me. I can't wait for some new Mick stuff.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 38356
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 3:14pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 12:40am
Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 10:43pm
The problem with the “suits” is that Joe got Gary Kurfirst to renegotiate his contract with Sony for him and Joe would be owed a lot of money for an album. That’s why they were reticent to pick up his options. With Hellcat that wasn’t the case but, of course, he would be lucky to break even recording and touring.
Oh, sure, I suppose, but at least he didn't have them up his nose constantly. He seemed more satisfied with them, at any ratte, judging the statements he made about them at the time.
Don’t count Mick out just yet.
Definitely! It's easy to forget that Mick had gone through an equally fallow period before re-emerging with Carbon/Silicon in the early 2000s. Based on that, I'd be the last one to count him out! I think it's a question of finding something that makes sense to do, and seeing where it goes. When that day/time comes -- we'll know.
Yes. When the time comes. Stay tuned.
The anticipation is killing me. I can't wait for some new Mick stuff.
Mick needs to make a solo album. Crazy to think it hasn't happened yet. I wonder how many tunes he's sitting on? Stuff like US North for starters.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 58881
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
02 Sep 2017, 10:41pm
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 3:14pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 12:40am
Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 10:43pm
The problem with the “suits” is that Joe got Gary Kurfirst to renegotiate his contract with Sony for him and Joe would be owed a lot of money for an album. That’s why they were reticent to pick up his options. With Hellcat that wasn’t the case but, of course, he would be lucky to break even recording and touring.
Oh, sure, I suppose, but at least he didn't have them up his nose constantly. He seemed more satisfied with them, at any ratte, judging the statements he made about them at the time.
Don’t count Mick out just yet.
Definitely! It's easy to forget that Mick had gone through an equally fallow period before re-emerging with Carbon/Silicon in the early 2000s. Based on that, I'd be the last one to count him out! I think it's a question of finding something that makes sense to do, and seeing where it goes. When that day/time comes -- we'll know.
Yes. When the time comes. Stay tuned.
The anticipation is killing me. I can't wait for some new Mick stuff.
Mick needs to make a solo album. Crazy to think it hasn't happened yet. I wonder how many tunes he's sitting on? Stuff like US North for starters.
Personally I don't think Mick needs to do anything. But a solo album would be amazing.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 17319
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by Kory »

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 7:28pm
Heston wrote:
02 Sep 2017, 10:41pm
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 3:14pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 12:40am
Chairman Ralph wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 10:43pm


Oh, sure, I suppose, but at least he didn't have them up his nose constantly. He seemed more satisfied with them, at any ratte, judging the statements he made about them at the time.



Definitely! It's easy to forget that Mick had gone through an equally fallow period before re-emerging with Carbon/Silicon in the early 2000s. Based on that, I'd be the last one to count him out! I think it's a question of finding something that makes sense to do, and seeing where it goes. When that day/time comes -- we'll know.
Yes. When the time comes. Stay tuned.
The anticipation is killing me. I can't wait for some new Mick stuff.
Mick needs to make a solo album. Crazy to think it hasn't happened yet. I wonder how many tunes he's sitting on? Stuff like US North for starters.
Personally I don't think Mick needs to do anything. But a solo album would be amazing.
The cool thing is I have no idea what such a thing would sound like. He has so many paths he could take.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

coffeepotman
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1487
Joined: 23 Jun 2008, 1:51pm

Re: Out Of Control Lucky 8 Studio Demos 1983

Post by coffeepotman »

appleseed1 wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 10:34pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 9:45pm

Don’t count Mick out just yet.
I just saw a clip on YT of Rotten Hill Gang with an interview of Mick at the end where he says he's retired. Maybe that's old news but I'd like to think Teddy was right and that he still might come up with something new.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/7936112 ... esQO9a6qrQ

Post Reply