The Clash version of "Fire and Skill"!

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
JohnS
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Re: The Clash version of "Fire and Skill"!

Post by JohnS »

I have the Chorus show on various boot DVD-Rs of course, but also a 'semi-legit' DVD I bought from hmv.jp called 'The Clash Chorus 1980' on VAP VIDEO productions (VPBR - 19044) (Sorry I can't find any reference online to a cover pic, but the same label is listed on discogs and has put out a lot of concert DVDs etc.)
This is a Region 2 NTSC format DVD, playing time 46.09. Image quality is excellent. It has Japanese subtitles which you can switch off and apparently a Dolby Digital 5.1 mix aswell as 'Linear PCM / Stereo' ie. the standard audio. Of course the standard mix is just plain mono, but at least the DD mix is there and listening on headphones it has a slightly fuller and wider sound.

I've just compared it to the official DVD from the INA Chorus box set and would say perhaps the INA DVD has SLIGHTLY better image quality, but there's not much in it. There are some very faint horizontal bands and tiny specks a bit like interference at times on the VAP version, but they seem to have been cleaned up a bit on the INA disc.
One thing that has been added on the INA disc is new captions for the song titles, which are a much more modern style/typography which 'slide in from the side' and then 'slide off again' They cover up the original captions, which were just very basic white type subtitles. They're not a big problem and don't encroach on the image much, but they're obviously not part of the original broadcast. At least it shows they've done some sort of post-production work on the footage.

The main difference is the intro and overall playing time - 46.09 for the VAP DVD, vs 42.20 for the INA.
Both have the 30secs Chorus title sequence (nice animated graphics a bit like Barney Bubbles' work for Costello's Armed Forces) and then Antoine de Wotsit's introduction filmed in the street.
But the Japanese version is longer - after the title sequence it cuts to a shot of the back of an artic lorry, presumably the band's gear truck with its UK 'Long Vehicle' banner, and pans down the street going through an arch with Antoine into the side street where he joins his mate with the dog, then does his intro.
The INA disc omits the truck/street shot and just cuts from the title sequence to Antoine already in the street, and then his speech to camera.
Both end with the original closing credits from the TV show, and the Japanese DVD then has about 10 seconds of the screen showing the 'VAP' logo and some small print stuff
I'm mystified why there is such a difference in timing cos the extra street footage lasts about 30-40secs and the closing VAP credit another 10secs. The live stuff certainly doesn't feel sped up and there's no edits I could see.
Maybe it's something to do with the way that the INA disc is in PAL format and the Japanese one is NTSC. I know the different formats have different scanning / feet-per-second speeds or something which does cause playback timings to alter. Maybe TeddyB knows more about this stuff
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Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash version of "Fire and Skill"!

Post by Marky Dread »

JohnS wrote:
24 Sep 2017, 9:54am
I have the Chorus show on various boot DVD-Rs of course, but also a 'semi-legit' DVD I bought from hmv.jp called 'The Clash Chorus 1980' on VAP VIDEO productions (VPBR - 19044) (Sorry I can't find any reference online to a cover pic, but the same label is listed on discogs and has put out a lot of concert DVDs etc.)
This is a Region 2 NTSC format DVD, playing time 46.09. Image quality is excellent. It has Japanese subtitles which you can switch off and apparently a Dolby Digital 5.1 mix aswell as 'Linear PCM / Stereo' ie. the standard audio. Of course the standard mix is just plain mono, but at least the DD mix is there and listening on headphones it has a slightly fuller and wider sound.

I've just compared it to the official DVD from the INA Chorus box set and would say perhaps the INA DVD has SLIGHTLY better image quality, but there's not much in it. There are some very faint horizontal bands and tiny specks a bit like interference at times on the VAP version, but they seem to have been cleaned up a bit on the INA disc.
One thing that has been added on the INA disc is new captions for the song titles, which are a much more modern style/typography which 'slide in from the side' and then 'slide off again' They cover up the original captions, which were just very basic white type subtitles. They're not a big problem and don't encroach on the image much, but they're obviously not part of the original broadcast. At least it shows they've done some sort of post-production work on the footage.

The main difference is the intro and overall playing time - 46.09 for the VAP DVD, vs 42.20 for the INA.
Both have the 30secs Chorus title sequence (nice animated graphics a bit like Barney Bubbles' work for Costello's Armed Forces) and then Antoine de Wotsit's introduction filmed in the street.
But the Japanese version is longer - after the title sequence it cuts to a shot of the back of an artic lorry, presumably the band's gear truck with its UK 'Long Vehicle' banner, and pans down the street going through an arch with Antoine into the side street where he joins his mate with the dog, then does his intro.
The INA disc omits the truck/street shot and just cuts from the title sequence to Antoine already in the street, and then his speech to camera.
Both end with the original closing credits from the TV show, and the Japanese DVD then has about 10 seconds of the screen showing the 'VAP' logo and some small print stuff
I'm mystified why there is such a difference in timing cos the extra street footage lasts about 30-40secs and the closing VAP credit another 10secs. The live stuff certainly doesn't feel sped up and there's no edits I could see.
Maybe it's something to do with the way that the INA disc is in PAL format and the Japanese one is NTSC. I know the different formats have different scanning / feet-per-second speeds or something which does cause playback timings to alter. Maybe TeddyB knows more about this stuff
Brilliant thanks very much for the info John. It sounds like the VAP DVD is the same as the one I have with the longer title sequence.

Edit : just re-read the the dscription of the version I have on Amazon and it does say "Only Previously Released In Japan". Also just purchased the 3 DVD box. Thanks again mate. :approve:
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JohnS
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Re: The Clash version of "Fire and Skill"!

Post by JohnS »

Marky Dread wrote:
24 Sep 2017, 10:17am
Brilliant thanks very much for the info John. It sounds like the VAP DVD is the same as the one I have with the longer title sequence.
Edit : just re-read the the dscription of the version I have on Amazon and it does say "Only Previously Released In Japan". Also just purchased the 3 DVD box. Thanks again mate. :approve:
Happy to chip in with some insanely obsessive info :mrgreen:
Sounds like you're covered on both sources if you've got the 3DVD set on its way - I'm glad it's still available. It never got much publicity and would be snapped up if it was more readily available in shops etc.
I think it's a bargain and there's TONS of great stuff on there, in excellent quality. I'm sure you'll get your money's worth out of it :mrgreen:
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TeddyB Not Logged In
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Re: The Clash version of "Fire and Skill"!

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

I don't know. I have the VAP one, and the one with the red and black cover and seemed to think the VAP was somehow preferable as it's in my "collection", but that may have been just about the cover. That 3CD set looks great. Mick was reminiscing with Antoine when Gorillaz played his show a few years ago. Apparently the Clash was his first episode.

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Re: The Clash version of "Fire and Skill"!

Post by BR16ADE_R055E »

I have the INA version (stand alone, not from the box set). Is the VAP one still available?

Toppers Boppers
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Re: The Clash version of "Fire and Skill"!

Post by Toppers Boppers »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 10:33pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 12:33am
Marky Dread wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 9:22pm
Heston wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 9:20pm
1981 has to be Jaap Edenhall. Nothing comes close.
For a complete genuine show that would be great. SonBurns remaster was great and I did one as well where we mixed in the missing tracks.
Aha! I knew you were involved in that mofo! We talked about this a while back, and you couldn't remember which version was the crown jewel - yours or Sonny Burnitt's. It's one of the few things I've ever been successfully able to download and burn (after hours of yelling at the computer and scaring the cats), and it really is a treasure.

I also had some theory that Mick had heard it and wanted it for a bonus disc for the planned deluxe version of 'Sandinista!' a few years back; I PMd TeddyB about it but he never got back to me. Probably thought I was dreaming it and nuts (he'd be right on both counts :mrgreen: ).
You have it backwards. Sony wanted to put out a deluxe version of Sandinista and suggested adding either Amsterdam (which would have been cool) or Jamaica (which would have made little sense). They sent CD’s to Gerry, including the full Amsterdam, but Mick felt that there was scant studio bonus material to make it worthwhile and so wasn’t interested. Who knows where those CD’s are now. :(

That Paris show is great. Has anyone heard Carla Bruni’s new version of Jimmy Jazz? I haven’t yet. The mind boggles.
Boggle on mes amis...

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