Sex Mad Roar and Do It Now would be how the rest of the album sounded. Weren't these produced by Joe and Nick?
Still Joe and Bernie, just allowed Pete to finally play and then gave him the worst drum sound ever.
I'm okay with how things worked out because for me, the November 83 demos and the live takes show that the songs weren't very good. Dictator is only interesting in its shitshow clown orgy arrangement on the album. Dirty Punk, We Are the Clash, Cool Under Heat are all mediocre in any form. The four on the floor rage rock of Three Card live isn't quite as effective in its ska arrangement on the album (that they carried into 85), but it's still pretty fun. Are You Ready is marginally better live, as is This Is England. In the end, we are talking about a handful of good songs that would make for an album slightly better than Earthquake Weather for me.
Holy wrong-o.
The 83 demos are practically the first time the band (minus Vince) worked out the new songs. They're interesting to listen to, but hardly representative of the material. You can obviously hear how the arrangements evolve and develop through the winter/spring 84 tours.
And Are You Ready For War is immense. Probably better than half the tracks on Combat Rock.
At any rate, far better to go out in the incomprehensible, baffling noise of Life is Wild than the shuddering mawkishness of Death is a Star imo.
Sex Mad Roar and Do It Now would be how the rest of the album sounded. Weren't these produced by Joe and Nick?
Still Joe and Bernie, just allowed Pete to finally play and then gave him the worst drum sound ever.
I'm okay with how things worked out because for me, the November 83 demos and the live takes show that the songs weren't very good. Dictator is only interesting in its shitshow clown orgy arrangement on the album. Dirty Punk, We Are the Clash, Cool Under Heat are all mediocre in any form. The four on the floor rage rock of Three Card live isn't quite as effective in its ska arrangement on the album (that they carried into 85), but it's still pretty fun. Are You Ready is marginally better live, as is This Is England. In the end, we are talking about a handful of good songs that would make for an album slightly better than Earthquake Weather for me.
Holy wrong-o.
The 83 demos are practically the first time the band (minus Vince) worked out the new songs. They're interesting to listen to, but hardly representative of the material. You can obviously hear how the arrangements evolve and develop through the winter/spring 84 tours.
And Are You Ready For War is immense. Probably better than half the tracks on Combat Rock.
Correct about Are You Red...y but only as it was released on CtC.
Re: Cut The Crap
Posted: 14 Nov 2017, 2:26pm
by Low Down Low
I'd say Are You Ready is better than Red Angel Dragnet and Death Is a Star and possibly on a par with Atom Tan. But that's about it. Personally I'd much rather the demo version, love Nick's guitar work on it.
Yeah, that's a solid tune, particularly in that arrangement (sorry, no Hoyston here).
The Nov 83 demos show the songs in their essence. We Are The Clash and Dictator are not interesting melodically, lyrically, or structurally and they never changed them much from these arrangements. Ready and Rain get massive overhauls and are so much better because of it, but I don't think much else changed besides some cut time antics on This Is England. Had they punched up the other tunes similarly, you would potentially have a solid album.
Re: Cut The Crap
Posted: 14 Nov 2017, 3:28pm
by WestwayKid
I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.
I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.
I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.
I was just looking at CtC on Amazon...just curious to see what versions were out there. Took a look at the Japanese reissue and it had one review - FIVE stars...and here is the comment: "This Japanese mini-lp replica version of Clash's best album is simply a work of art! Very beautifully designed with all the lyrics included and with a sound quality remastered to perfection. This is by far the best version of this album that is out there; great sound quality, great packaging, great songs! A must have in any CD collector's library."
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to reach out to this poor soul and help him.
You can’t polish a turd.
No, but you can roll it in glitter.
That would make it shitter.
Re: Cut The Crap
Posted: 14 Nov 2017, 5:43pm
by TeddyB Not Logged In
C'mon, Death is a Star as originally envisioned at the end of Rat Patrol is like being outside of Kurtz's cave after he's been offed. Life is Wild is like a song Joe whipped up for an 80's teen rom com that got passed over.
I mean, neither of those is my favorite song, but for me the song writing for RP/CR includes four classics and three or four "wiggy" winners. Though Glyn Johns successfully cleaned these up for public consumption, the context was severely damaged by his pop intent, as exemplified by the album's title change. The pool of material Joe had to choose from for CTC includes two good songs and two or three other decent ones amid the muck. The context only further sunk him.
C'mon, Death is a Star as originally envisioned at the end of Rat Patrol is like being outside of Kurtz's cave after he's been offed. Life is Wild is like a song Joe whipped up for an 80's teen rom com that got passed over.
I mean, neither of those is my favorite song, but for me the song writing for RP/CR includes four classics and three or four "wiggy" winners. Though Glyn Johns successfully cleaned these up for public consumption, the context was severely damaged by his pop intent, as exemplified by the album's title change. The pool of material Joe had to choose from for CTC includes two good songs and two or three other decent ones amid the muck. The context only further sunk him.
I dunno — "And I was gripped [snap!] by that deadly phantom" makes me recoil every time I hear it. I get that it's a vibe thing, but it probably made more sense on a spacey Rat Patrol than a slick Combat Rock.
There were definitely some interesting possibilities with Joe's post-Mick songs — Glue Zombie has some neat slow-burn rhythms and changes, Jericho's a rockabilly steamroller, Ready For War is fantastic Clash funk. Later tracks like Movers and Shakers/Cool Under Heat/Dirty Punk/North and South are serviceable, but the band didn't really have the time, musicianship and chemistry to elevate weaker material. The couple of tracks that work on Cut the Crap really come down to Joe's performance.
Re: Cut The Crap
Posted: 14 Nov 2017, 7:09pm
by TeddyB Not Logged In
Yeah, Joe's performance is definitely what elevated some post-Mick Clash songs, as it later elevated some solo material. Every time I saw him play, it always came flooding that Joe was still great at the things he did, but that the rest of it (songs, context, playing style) was all basically missing. The only one I ever felt was value added was when Tymon was there, even though the keyboard player was okay.
Re: Cut The Crap
Posted: 14 Nov 2017, 8:29pm
by Heston
When are we gonna realise the major problem with CtC is the mix and production? It is really not a bad set of songs. Interesting chord changes, tight arrangements, Joe sounding great, and some very serviceable lyrics. The tunes are there. Are you telling me Are You Red..y isn't structurally and melodically better than This Is Radio Clash for example? Play To Win beats Mensforth Hill and Death Is a Star into the ground as an abstract piece.
We can never judge CtC against the Clash's other material until we hear it in a semi-professional mix. I doubt even London Calling would have sounded great with a shit drum machine and Bernie Rhodes producing.
Re: Cut The Crap
Posted: 14 Nov 2017, 9:00pm
by Dr. Medulla
The fantasy that CtC could have been respectable, even good, is the Prester John myth of some people here. The material was mediocre at best and made comical by Bernie's technology boner. Just let it go.
The fantasy that CtC could have been respectable, even good, is the Prester John myth of some people here. The material was mediocre at best and made comical by Bernie's technology boner. Just let it go.
I think some people enjoy discussing it because they like the songs and find the story behind the album fascinating.
