Sandinista! Which format?

[Marky Dread]

I suppose the difference is that one is just a video and in the other you are "playing" before a live audience. Yes, I get that the idea of TOTP was to reach the millions watching at home on the telly box, but still. I guess we can all hvae different interpretations on this. Maybe there was an element of self-sabotage about the whole thing, I can get that too, but if it was a mistake, then I like to think it was one they made for good and wholesome reasons, unlike some of the other major faux pas they committed. Not saying it's high up there on the list of things I cherish about the Clash, just a small thing I felt good about then and that hasn't been diminished by the passage of time. Same with the knock-down LP prices.

Incidentally, I'm not entirely sure it was simply just a miming thing. My knowledge of TOTP history is admittedly scant, but I do know there was an entire rigmarole around the recording of songs, that I think Joe referred to as a "charade", involving union reps and BBC officials. It wasn't just a case of turning up in White City or wherever the studio was and prancing around to a backing track. Mind you, I don't know if I'm quite ready to forgive him for the Englands Irie debacle just yet!

Yep both Mick and Joe both ended up playing on the show. I get the fact that they saw it as an old format with horrible bigoted presenters etc and I can respect their stance. All I'm saying is that for a band who values the importance of a message in a song then they made a mistake. Remember The Clash didn't sing about love and kissing they were not just another pop group. Get that message out to the widest audience possible. Yeah TOTP's what a horrible show and yes lots of problems with musicians unions and so on. Oddly enough not all performance were mimed check out PiL's Death Disco for example. The thing is who gave permission for the show to use the "Bankrobber" single and have Leg's & Co. prance around to it? Why not just go on the show and be yourself and have some fun and at least promote your own song in your own way. Look at all the other punk groups that just took the piss by making no attempt mime and had fun by playing the wrong instruments etc. simply great to watch those clips now. The Boomtown Rats while not in the same league as The Clash were great on that show when Geldof tore up a picture of John Travolta and Olivia Newton-John after knocking them off the number 1 spot with Rat Trap, fantastic statement!

I've no idea how things worked regarding band consent, but i was vaguely under the impression that the lewisham video had been made with TOTP in mind, could be wrong, just thought I read that somewhere. But if the band were aware of what was happening, surely they'd have insisted on using the video as opposed to allowing the TOTP dancing girls piss all over their song in what I can only imagine was a TOTP revenge strike on the group.

And credit where it's due, that was a pretty inspired piece of iconoclasm from the mouthy irish git, but as Silent Majority says above about the Pistols, when they did TOTP they did it properly, no mucking about, and that's the way I'd see it. Either turn up and do it properly or stay clear like the Clash. Sure, some of the mickey taking was funny for a while (although much more so when unintentional i thought [cf All About Eve for epic car crash television]). And then you have stuff like The Skids where, despite the protests of Stuart Adamson, Jobson pulled rank and insisted they perform while making sure to show how above it all he was by allegedly spitting at one of tne Nolan Sisters backstage. How very puck rock indeed!

Are you referring to when the Pistols played on the show in '96 if so that's so long after anyone cared for it to even matter. If you are referring to when they appeared on the show in the 70's then that was the "Pretty Vacant" video promo and it was used without the bands consent and was given to TOTP's by their (mis)manager Malcolm McLaren without their knowledge. Rotten saying afterwards that he didn't want to appear on the show and that it was "really nasty" of McLaren to do what he did.

I'm not so sure Jobson actually spat at the Nolans as opposed to on the floor next to them either way it was dumb.

Actually I was basically displaying my ignorance of Pistols' history. I was just blindly assuming they'd appeared on the show a couple of times without actually stopping to think how likely that would have been! And yeah, that was pretty nasty of Malcolm, but that was pretty much the way of things, wasn't it?

Jobson gets a pass on the basis of some killer songs, but I can't decide which is the bigger sin, his disrespect for the Nolans or the capital crimes he committed against fashion during his TOTP appearances?

Malcolm only cared about promotion and the media so yeah that was his way. Jobson wore some terrible gear during the punk years but his energy was awesome.

The thing about The Clash and Sex Pistols not wanting to do the show is just stupid really. Cook 'n' Jones both played the show with The Greedies, Lydon with PiL, Jones with BAD, Strummer with Black Grape.

Imagine you are 14/15 years old it's a Thursday night sometime in '78 you turn on the TV BBC1 7.30 some stupid looking hairy faced twat appears "good evening and welcome to TOTP's and here's The Clash with Tommy Gun ....machine gun fire intro ....two big chords from Jones thud, thud thud, Strummer :Tommy Guuuuun, sheer fucking punk rock bliss it's all that matters in the world at that precise moment it stays with you forever. The next day all you can talk about at school is "hey did you see The Clash on TV last night" "yeah fucking great wasn't it" it changes your life totally no other band matters anymore this is the one you've waited for.

[101Walterton]

Didn't realise Holidays in The Sun made TOTP, albeit closing credits. Also Legs and Co. danced to Silly Thing and Something Else.
Johnny was the only one back then who outed Saveille to be fair to him.


28:50

[youtube][/youtube]

[Low Down Low]

Yep both Mick and Joe both ended up playing on the show. I get the fact that they saw it as an old format with horrible bigoted presenters etc and I can respect their stance. All I'm saying is that for a band who values the importance of a message in a song then they made a mistake. Remember The Clash didn't sing about love and kissing they were not just another pop group. Get that message out to the widest audience possible. Yeah TOTP's what a horrible show and yes lots of problems with musicians unions and so on. Oddly enough not all performance were mimed check out PiL's Death Disco for example. The thing is who gave permission for the show to use the "Bankrobber" single and have Leg's & Co. prance around to it? Why not just go on the show and be yourself and have some fun and at least promote your own song in your own way. Look at all the other punk groups that just took the piss by making no attempt mime and had fun by playing the wrong instruments etc. simply great to watch those clips now. The Boomtown Rats while not in the same league as The Clash were great on that show when Geldof tore up a picture of John Travolta and Olivia Newton-John after knocking them off the number 1 spot with Rat Trap, fantastic statement!

I've no idea how things worked regarding band consent, but i was vaguely under the impression that the lewisham video had been made with TOTP in mind, could be wrong, just thought I read that somewhere. But if the band were aware of what was happening, surely they'd have insisted on using the video as opposed to allowing the TOTP dancing girls piss all over their song in what I can only imagine was a TOTP revenge strike on the group.

And credit where it's due, that was a pretty inspired piece of iconoclasm from the mouthy irish git, but as Silent Majority says above about the Pistols, when they did TOTP they did it properly, no mucking about, and that's the way I'd see it. Either turn up and do it properly or stay clear like the Clash. Sure, some of the mickey taking was funny for a while (although much more so when unintentional i thought [cf All About Eve for epic car crash television]). And then you have stuff like The Skids where, despite the protests of Stuart Adamson, Jobson pulled rank and insisted they perform while making sure to show how above it all he was by allegedly spitting at one of tne Nolan Sisters backstage. How very puck rock indeed!

Are you referring to when the Pistols played on the show in '96 if so that's so long after anyone cared for it to even matter. If you are referring to when they appeared on the show in the 70's then that was the "Pretty Vacant" video promo and it was used without the bands consent and was given to TOTP's by their (mis)manager Malcolm McLaren without their knowledge. Rotten saying afterwards that he didn't want to appear on the show and that it was "really nasty" of McLaren to do what he did.

I'm not so sure Jobson actually spat at the Nolans as opposed to on the floor next to them either way it was dumb.

Actually I was basically displaying my ignorance of Pistols' history. I was just blindly assuming they'd appeared on the show a couple of times without actually stopping to think how likely that would have been! And yeah, that was pretty nasty of Malcolm, but that was pretty much the way of things, wasn't it?

Jobson gets a pass on the basis of some killer songs, but I can't decide which is the bigger sin, his disrespect for the Nolans or the capital crimes he committed against fashion during his TOTP appearances?

Malcolm only cared about promotion and the media so yeah that was his way. Jobson wore some terrible gear during the punk years but his energy was awesome.

The thing about The Clash and Sex Pistols not wanting to do the show is just stupid really. Cook 'n' Jones both played the show with The Greedies, Lydon with PiL, Jones with BAD, Strummer with Black Grape.

Imagine you are 14/15 years old it's a Thursday night sometime in '78 you turn on the TV BBC1 7.30 some stupid looking hairy faced twat appears "good evening and welcome to TOTP's and here's The Clash with Tommy Gun ....machine gun fire intro ....two big chords from Jones thud, thud thud, Strummer :Tommy Guuuuun, sheer fucking punk rock bliss it's all that matters in the world at that precise moment it stays with you forever. The next day all you can talk about at school is "hey did you see The Clash on TV last night" "yeah fucking great wasn't it" it changes your life totally no other band matters anymore this is the one you've waited for.

I'm afraid I was a bit younger than 14/15 in 1978 and my major musical memory from that year is Racey and Darts coming to play in our tiny hamlet in successive weeks and thinking, man, this is rock n' roll...but we'll let that pass for the moment! But, yeah, you paint a nice picture and I can vividly recall feeling totally starved of Clash around that time. I remember seeing Know Your Rights and SISOSIG from the US Festival one night and managed to tape it on our old betamax recorder. I'm pretty sure that was the only visual Clash I ever had. I played that tape every morning before goign to school and first thing when I got home, played it over and over until one day the damn thing stops and that terrible gurgling sound of tape being gobbled emits from the machine. I shudder even thinking about it now!

[Marky Dread]

Didn't realise Holidays in The Sun made TOTP, albeit closing credits. Also Legs and Co. danced to Silly Thing and Something Else.
Johnny was the only one back then who outed Saveille to be fair to him.


28:50

[youtube][/youtube]

Closing credits like some token gesture.
The Pistols were not really a band when Silly Thing and Something Else were released.

[Marky Dread]

I've no idea how things worked regarding band consent, but i was vaguely under the impression that the lewisham video had been made with TOTP in mind, could be wrong, just thought I read that somewhere. But if the band were aware of what was happening, surely they'd have insisted on using the video as opposed to allowing the TOTP dancing girls piss all over their song in what I can only imagine was a TOTP revenge strike on the group.

And credit where it's due, that was a pretty inspired piece of iconoclasm from the mouthy irish git, but as Silent Majority says above about the Pistols, when they did TOTP they did it properly, no mucking about, and that's the way I'd see it. Either turn up and do it properly or stay clear like the Clash. Sure, some of the mickey taking was funny for a while (although much more so when unintentional i thought [cf All About Eve for epic car crash television]). And then you have stuff like The Skids where, despite the protests of Stuart Adamson, Jobson pulled rank and insisted they perform while making sure to show how above it all he was by allegedly spitting at one of tne Nolan Sisters backstage. How very puck rock indeed!

Are you referring to when the Pistols played on the show in '96 if so that's so long after anyone cared for it to even matter. If you are referring to when they appeared on the show in the 70's then that was the "Pretty Vacant" video promo and it was used without the bands consent and was given to TOTP's by their (mis)manager Malcolm McLaren without their knowledge. Rotten saying afterwards that he didn't want to appear on the show and that it was "really nasty" of McLaren to do what he did.

I'm not so sure Jobson actually spat at the Nolans as opposed to on the floor next to them either way it was dumb.

Actually I was basically displaying my ignorance of Pistols' history. I was just blindly assuming they'd appeared on the show a couple of times without actually stopping to think how likely that would have been! And yeah, that was pretty nasty of Malcolm, but that was pretty much the way of things, wasn't it?

Jobson gets a pass on the basis of some killer songs, but I can't decide which is the bigger sin, his disrespect for the Nolans or the capital crimes he committed against fashion during his TOTP appearances?

Malcolm only cared about promotion and the media so yeah that was his way. Jobson wore some terrible gear during the punk years but his energy was awesome.

The thing about The Clash and Sex Pistols not wanting to do the show is just stupid really. Cook 'n' Jones both played the show with The Greedies, Lydon with PiL, Jones with BAD, Strummer with Black Grape.

Imagine you are 14/15 years old it's a Thursday night sometime in '78 you turn on the TV BBC1 7.30 some stupid looking hairy faced twat appears "good evening and welcome to TOTP's and here's The Clash with Tommy Gun ....machine gun fire intro ....two big chords from Jones thud, thud thud, Strummer :Tommy Guuuuun, sheer fucking punk rock bliss it's all that matters in the world at that precise moment it stays with you forever. The next day all you can talk about at school is "hey did you see The Clash on TV last night" "yeah fucking great wasn't it" it changes your life totally no other band matters anymore this is the one you've waited for.

I'm afraid I was a bit younger than 14/15 in 1978 and my major musical memory from that year is Racey and Darts coming to play in our tiny hamlet in successive weeks and thinking, man, this is rock n' roll...but we'll let that pass for the moment! But, yeah, you paint a nice picture and I can vividly recall feeling totally starved of Clash around that time. I remember seeing Know Your Rights and SISOSIG from the US Festival one night and managed to tape it on our old betamax recorder. I'm pretty sure that was the only visual Clash I ever had. I played that tape every morning before goign to school and first thing when I got home, played it over and over until one day the damn thing stops and that terrible gurgling sound of tape being gobbled emits from the machine. I shudder even thinking about it now!

Oh the deadly tape heads destroying your beloved recording, yep happened many a time.

...and I still like some Darts tunes. As for Racey most of the girls I knew didn't.

[Low Down Low]

Didn't realise Holidays in The Sun made TOTP, albeit closing credits. Also Legs and Co. danced to Silly Thing and Something Else.
Johnny was the only one back then who outed Saveille to be fair to him.


28:50

[youtube][/youtube]

The Pistols were not really a band when Silly Thing and Something Else were released.

The Silly Thing dance is even more rubbish than the Bankrobber one, think they were definitely more naff about it than usual on purpose.

Was John public about the savile thing back then? I thought that was something that only came to light recently, but yes either way fair fucks to him for at least trying to shame all those who must have known but preferred to see it being swept under the carpet.

[Marky Dread]

Didn't realise Holidays in The Sun made TOTP, albeit closing credits. Also Legs and Co. danced to Silly Thing and Something Else.
Johnny was the only one back then who outed Saveille to be fair to him.


28:50

[youtube][/youtube]

The Pistols were not really a band when Silly Thing and Something Else were released.

The Silly Thing dance is even more rubbish than the Bankrobber one, think they were definitely more naff about it than usual on purpose.

Was John public about the savile thing back then? I thought that was something that only came to light recently, but yes either way fair fucks to him for at least trying to shame all those who must have known but preferred to see it being swept under the carpet.

1978.


I don't know if you would consider it public but this was his view from an interview with Judy Vermorel who with husband Fred produced the book Sex Pistols : The Inside Story.

[Low Down Low]

Are you referring to when the Pistols played on the show in '96 if so that's so long after anyone cared for it to even matter. If you are referring to when they appeared on the show in the 70's then that was the "Pretty Vacant" video promo and it was used without the bands consent and was given to TOTP's by their (mis)manager Malcolm McLaren without their knowledge. Rotten saying afterwards that he didn't want to appear on the show and that it was "really nasty" of McLaren to do what he did.

I'm not so sure Jobson actually spat at the Nolans as opposed to on the floor next to them either way it was dumb.

Actually I was basically displaying my ignorance of Pistols' history. I was just blindly assuming they'd appeared on the show a couple of times without actually stopping to think how likely that would have been! And yeah, that was pretty nasty of Malcolm, but that was pretty much the way of things, wasn't it?

Jobson gets a pass on the basis of some killer songs, but I can't decide which is the bigger sin, his disrespect for the Nolans or the capital crimes he committed against fashion during his TOTP appearances?

Malcolm only cared about promotion and the media so yeah that was his way. Jobson wore some terrible gear during the punk years but his energy was awesome.

The thing about The Clash and Sex Pistols not wanting to do the show is just stupid really. Cook 'n' Jones both played the show with The Greedies, Lydon with PiL, Jones with BAD, Strummer with Black Grape.

Imagine you are 14/15 years old it's a Thursday night sometime in '78 you turn on the TV BBC1 7.30 some stupid looking hairy faced twat appears "good evening and welcome to TOTP's and here's The Clash with Tommy Gun ....machine gun fire intro ....two big chords from Jones thud, thud thud, Strummer :Tommy Guuuuun, sheer fucking punk rock bliss it's all that matters in the world at that precise moment it stays with you forever. The next day all you can talk about at school is "hey did you see The Clash on TV last night" "yeah fucking great wasn't it" it changes your life totally no other band matters anymore this is the one you've waited for.

I'm afraid I was a bit younger than 14/15 in 1978 and my major musical memory from that year is Racey and Darts coming to play in our tiny hamlet in successive weeks and thinking, man, this is rock n' roll...but we'll let that pass for the moment! But, yeah, you paint a nice picture and I can vividly recall feeling totally starved of Clash around that time. I remember seeing Know Your Rights and SISOSIG from the US Festival one night and managed to tape it on our old betamax recorder. I'm pretty sure that was the only visual Clash I ever had. I played that tape every morning before goign to school and first thing when I got home, played it over and over until one day the damn thing stops and that terrible gurgling sound of tape being gobbled emits from the machine. I shudder even thinking about it now!

Oh the deadly tape heads destroying your beloved recording, yep happened many a time.

...and I still like some Darts tunes. As for Racey most of the girls I knew didn't.

My memory of the Racey gig I went to is the place was cramming with hot girls. I approached one and whispered into her ear, ooh baby it's you (my chat-up lines were a bit on the primitive side back then). She smiled and said come on baby lay your love on me. I asked her if she went home with strange guys she met at gigs and she replied enigmatically, some girls do and some girls don't, and then proceeded for the rest of the night to give me the runaround. Sue was her name if I remember correctly.

[Marky Dread]

Are you referring to when the Pistols played on the show in '96 if so that's so long after anyone cared for it to even matter. If you are referring to when they appeared on the show in the 70's then that was the "Pretty Vacant" video promo and it was used without the bands consent and was given to TOTP's by their (mis)manager Malcolm McLaren without their knowledge. Rotten saying afterwards that he didn't want to appear on the show and that it was "really nasty" of McLaren to do what he did.

I'm not so sure Jobson actually spat at the Nolans as opposed to on the floor next to them either way it was dumb.

Actually I was basically displaying my ignorance of Pistols' history. I was just blindly assuming they'd appeared on the show a couple of times without actually stopping to think how likely that would have been! And yeah, that was pretty nasty of Malcolm, but that was pretty much the way of things, wasn't it?

Jobson gets a pass on the basis of some killer songs, but I can't decide which is the bigger sin, his disrespect for the Nolans or the capital crimes he committed against fashion during his TOTP appearances?

Malcolm only cared about promotion and the media so yeah that was his way. Jobson wore some terrible gear during the punk years but his energy was awesome.

The thing about The Clash and Sex Pistols not wanting to do the show is just stupid really. Cook 'n' Jones both played the show with The Greedies, Lydon with PiL, Jones with BAD, Strummer with Black Grape.

Imagine you are 14/15 years old it's a Thursday night sometime in '78 you turn on the TV BBC1 7.30 some stupid looking hairy faced twat appears "good evening and welcome to TOTP's and here's The Clash with Tommy Gun ....machine gun fire intro ....two big chords from Jones thud, thud thud, Strummer :Tommy Guuuuun, sheer fucking punk rock bliss it's all that matters in the world at that precise moment it stays with you forever. The next day all you can talk about at school is "hey did you see The Clash on TV last night" "yeah fucking great wasn't it" it changes your life totally no other band matters anymore this is the one you've waited for.

I'm afraid I was a bit younger than 14/15 in 1978 and my major musical memory from that year is Racey and Darts coming to play in our tiny hamlet in successive weeks and thinking, man, this is rock n' roll...but we'll let that pass for the moment! But, yeah, you paint a nice picture and I can vividly recall feeling totally starved of Clash around that time. I remember seeing Know Your Rights and SISOSIG from the US Festival one night and managed to tape it on our old betamax recorder. I'm pretty sure that was the only visual Clash I ever had. I played that tape every morning before goign to school and first thing when I got home, played it over and over until one day the damn thing stops and that terrible gurgling sound of tape being gobbled emits from the machine. I shudder even thinking about it now!

Oh the deadly tape heads destroying your beloved recording, yep happened many a time.

...and I still like some Darts tunes. As for Racey most of the girls I knew didn't.

My memory of the Racey gig I went to is the place was cramming with hot girls. I approached one and whispered into her ear, ooh baby it's you (my chat-up lines were a bit on the primitive side back then). She smiled and said come on baby lay your love on me. I asked her if she went home with strange guys she met at gigs and she replied enigmatically, some girls do and some girls don't, and then proceeded for the rest of the night to give me the runaround. Sue was her name if I remember correctly.[/quote]


I never understood why I had no success with girls.

Hello and goodbye
And a run around Sue
You follow me around
Like a pretty pot of glue
I kick you in the head
You got nothing to say
Get out of the way
'Cause I gotta get away
You never realize
I take the piss out of you
You come up and see me
And I'll beat you black and blue okay
I'll send you away

[dave202]

Didn't realise Holidays in The Sun made TOTP, albeit closing credits. Also Legs and Co. danced to Silly Thing and Something Else.
Johnny was the only one back then who outed Saveille to be fair to him.


28:50

[youtube][/youtube]

I seem to remember Savile introducing the Something Else video, when he was fronting the 'clunk, click' car safety campaign with a remark about Sid not wearing a helmet on his napper as he rode on a motorbike with something about, "So guys'n'gals, if you want to be safe..."

[Heston]

My knowledge of TOTP history is admittedly scant, but I do know there was an entire rigmarole around the recording of songs, that I think Joe referred to as a "charade", involving union reps and BBC officials. It wasn't just a case of turning up in White City or wherever the studio was and prancing around to a backing track.

Yes, bands were meant to rerecord their track so it would be a fresh version for TotP but most bands just went through the motions of rerecording, only to swap the tapes around at the last minute. A backhander for the man from TotP was usually involved.

[Silent Majority]

My knowledge of TOTP history is admittedly scant, but I do know there was an entire rigmarole around the recording of songs, that I think Joe referred to as a "charade", involving union reps and BBC officials. It wasn't just a case of turning up in White City or wherever the studio was and prancing around to a backing track.

Yes, bands were meant to rerecord their track so it would be a fresh version for TotP but most bands just went through the motions of rerecording, only to swap the tapes around at the last minute. A backhander for the man from TotP was usually involved.

I'm sympathetic to the reasons behind that madness. Recorded music looked scarily ready to kill off those non-hit having professional musicians when the BBC started up.

[Marky Dread]

My knowledge of TOTP history is admittedly scant, but I do know there was an entire rigmarole around the recording of songs, that I think Joe referred to as a "charade", involving union reps and BBC officials. It wasn't just a case of turning up in White City or wherever the studio was and prancing around to a backing track.

Yes, bands were meant to rerecord their track so it would be a fresh version for TotP but most bands just went through the motions of rerecording, only to swap the tapes around at the last minute. A backhander for the man from TotP was usually involved.

What's great about this is that there are some re-recorded alt. versions that are are a rarity now.

[Heston]

My knowledge of TOTP history is admittedly scant, but I do know there was an entire rigmarole around the recording of songs, that I think Joe referred to as a "charade", involving union reps and BBC officials. It wasn't just a case of turning up in White City or wherever the studio was and prancing around to a backing track.

Yes, bands were meant to rerecord their track so it would be a fresh version for TotP but most bands just went through the motions of rerecording, only to swap the tapes around at the last minute. A backhander for the man from TotP was usually involved.

What's great about this is that there are some re-recorded alt. versions that are are a rarity now.

Yeah, and even if the band didn't rerecord, the original was often remixed slightly. I was watching The Jam doing Going Underground on the TotPs 1980 repeats last week and I swear there was a vocal harmony in there that wasn't on the record.

[Marky Dread]

My knowledge of TOTP history is admittedly scant, but I do know there was an entire rigmarole around the recording of songs, that I think Joe referred to as a "charade", involving union reps and BBC officials. It wasn't just a case of turning up in White City or wherever the studio was and prancing around to a backing track.

Yes, bands were meant to rerecord their track so it would be a fresh version for TotP but most bands just went through the motions of rerecording, only to swap the tapes around at the last minute. A backhander for the man from TotP was usually involved.

What's great about this is that there are some re-recorded alt. versions that are are a rarity now.

Yeah, and even if the band didn't rerecord, the original was often remixed slightly. I was watching The Jam doing Going Underground on the TotPs 1980 repeats last week and I swear there was a vocal harmony in there that wasn't on the record.

Yep you are correct mate.