The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

General music discussion.
msza2
Junco Partner
Posts: 465
Joined: 22 Aug 2012, 2:15pm

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by msza2 »

I did a deep dive into the Beach Boy's early catalogue...and lived to tell about it.

Those albums are notoriously uneven. The hits, generally, are the bright spots. There is that proto-puno garage-punk thing going on, but the best examples of that are on hits like Surfin' Safari and Surfin' USA. You can definitely hear seeds for the Ramones, Descendents, and perhaps the Misfits in those tracks.

You're not going to find any early BB lyrics that don't sound like they were written by a 12 year old who has suffered through an aneurysm.

The instrumentals are pretty weak. Carl (the lead guitar player) was like 15 at the time. Miserlou is probably the best of them, though the Dick Dale version puts it to shame.

A few of the better deep cuts from the first few albums:

Don't Back Down
Hawaii
Farmer's Daughter
Lana
The Lonely Sea

The key change in the chorus of Don't Back Down sounds very proto-Misfits to me.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »

So Rev, do you like any pop music that has any mainstream popularity? Like the Beatles?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25333
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by revbob »

matedog wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 10:38am
So Rev, do you like any pop music that has any mainstream popularity? Like the Beatles?
Im the anti-Heston.

But seriously Im not sure what qualifies, I wouldn't have picked the Beatles in this regard but I suppose you are right. I like some Beatles music but can mostly take it or leave it.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 11:02am
Im the anti-Heston.
So you like inferior noodles?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25333
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 11:11am
revbob wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 11:02am
Im the anti-Heston.
So you like inferior noodles?
And I dont adorn my noodles with hot dogs nor brown sauce.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »



Stumbled upon this clip while doing my research for the next review. This is what I mean by 70s BBs being unrecognizable. One of the two randos is singing lead, it's super jammy with lots of breakdowns, and Mike Love is even playing a real instrument (though I don't even know what the hell he's playing, it looks like a lap steel from a distance, but it's definitely not).
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25333
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by revbob »

matedog wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:03pm


Stumbled upon this clip while doing my research for the next review. This is what I mean by 70s BBs being unrecognizable. One of the two randos is singing lead, it's super jammy with lots of breakdowns, and Mike Love is even playing a real instrument (though I don't even know what the hell he's playing, it looks like a lap steel from a distance, but it's definitely not).
That's all kinds of awful. Its loke they morphed into some kind of grateful dead wannabes

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »

revbob wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:21pm
matedog wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:03pm


Stumbled upon this clip while doing my research for the next review. This is what I mean by 70s BBs being unrecognizable. One of the two randos is singing lead, it's super jammy with lots of breakdowns, and Mike Love is even playing a real instrument (though I don't even know what the hell he's playing, it looks like a lap steel from a distance, but it's definitely not).
That's all kinds of awful. Its loke they morphed into some kind of grateful dead wannabes
For the record, I didn't post that to try to win you over on them. Just commenting on their weird ass history.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25333
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by revbob »

matedog wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:22pm
revbob wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:21pm
matedog wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:03pm


Stumbled upon this clip while doing my research for the next review. This is what I mean by 70s BBs being unrecognizable. One of the two randos is singing lead, it's super jammy with lots of breakdowns, and Mike Love is even playing a real instrument (though I don't even know what the hell he's playing, it looks like a lap steel from a distance, but it's definitely not).
That's all kinds of awful. Its loke they morphed into some kind of grateful dead wannabes
For the record, I didn't post that to try to win you over on them. Just commenting on their weird ass history.
Yeah, of course I know you better than that. I don't know that anyone but a drug addled dead head or phish fan could love. Maybe DMB fan.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:22pm
revbob wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:21pm
matedog wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 12:03pm


Stumbled upon this clip while doing my research for the next review. This is what I mean by 70s BBs being unrecognizable. One of the two randos is singing lead, it's super jammy with lots of breakdowns, and Mike Love is even playing a real instrument (though I don't even know what the hell he's playing, it looks like a lap steel from a distance, but it's definitely not).
That's all kinds of awful. Its loke they morphed into some kind of grateful dead wannabes
For the record, I didn't post that to try to win you over on them. Just commenting on their weird ass history.
Definitely nothing I'd want to listen to, but I respect(?) them going weird instead of however you'd characterize that awful 80s stuff.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »


1992's "Forever'" from the 1992 album "Summer in Paradise"
Lead Vocal - uhh, John Stamos


In a family full of tragic characters, Dennis probably wins the crown for most tragic of them all. He was the most rambunctious son and the most beaten by their dad in a family full of sons beaten by their dad. He was also a musical late bloomer, not hitting his stride until his late 20s when his younger brother Carl was singing "God Only Knows" at 19 years old. He caught up quickly and around 1969, for a ten year period or so, Dennis was an equal songwriting contributor to most BB albums and released his good solo album in 1977. From there, he took a deep dive into drugs and alcohol culminating with him drowning in 1983 at the age of 39. 

Flex and Wolter turned me onto this clip from 1981 that shows the sheer decline in his voice during the band intros at the 15-second mark:
I do appreciate him pushing the coward Bruce Johnston out of the way though. 

I'm no BBs expert, but I would generalize the songwriting styles as such:
  • Brian - genius level, complex pop music when he was at his strongest. 
    Carl - straightforward, utilitarian, more emphasis on traditional structures and arrangements, blue eyed soul at his best, Bruce Johnston level SRP at his worst.
    Dennis was somewhere in between. He probably veered more toward Brian's less traditional tendencies. His songs were typically harder, more R&B influenced than softie Carl. I could maybe categorize him as Brian with a worse work ethic but a greater sense of modern trends and styles. 
Toward the beginning of his creative run, he co-penned 1970's "Forever." "Forever" is a pretty sappy monster ballad of the 70's variety. Sappy monster ballads are a very hard sell and have to have the right messenger to sell what are in this case, some very schmatlzy lyrics. Fortunately, his "lovable loser", tragic underdog status is probably the song's saving grace. I think it is generally considered a lost classic from the band and was performed on their 50th anniversary as a tribute to Dennis. Personally, it doesn't do much for me. I get that there aren't too many coherent and straightforward ballads in their oeuvre and I do like the inventive vocal arrangement and some interesting chord changes, but the lyrics bring it down a bit for me.  There's other Dennis songs I much prefer like "River Song" on his solo album.

John Stamos first appeared in my analysis in the mediocre video for the resplendent "Kokomo" putting his damn leg up on the congas. As noted in the Train Wreckords video, he was brought into the band's orbit indirectly by Mike Love and slowly weaseled his way into the group and seems fairly involved in the Summer in Paradise media blitz including appearing in every single video from the album and directing the "Hot Fun" video. I'm not going to bother doing a deep dive on how his Full House character adopted this song, but I kind of appreciate that he tried to highlight a semi-obscure song of theirs on the show. This ultimately led to this week's video where he gets to cut a 90s version of the song and gets to take the lead.

Lyrics: It's really sappy stuff:
"If every word I said
Could make you laugh
I'd talk forever"
Lots of "my my my my" and "baby baby baby".

These sort of lyrics are a very hard sell and Dennis kinda sorta pulled it off. Let's take away the underdog status of the original singer and replace it with a 90s sheen sung by a (to this day) very handsome actor.

Music: Abrupt tom hits intro the song that leads to some very early 90s guitar lines. Honestly, Stamos' delivery isn't THAT far off Dennis'. The instrumentation of the original was very vocals focused with some light acoustic guitars and a slide guitar. This version has big 90s drums (that thankfully aren't as god awful as the rest of SiP's protools drummers) and big electric guitars. Just really cheesy guitars. The whole vocal breakdown is replaced with a god awful guitar solo and the BBs saying "wah!" Then it cuts to a not awful part with acoustic guitars and accordion. Carl does a parallel harmony with Stamos to remind us he's not better than this, but this is also the high point of this shitty song.

So yeah, the Stamos version takes whatever was redeemable about the original - Dennis' status, the vocal arrangement, and replaces them with 90s monster ballad cliches. It's really bad. 

Video: Spot on for the time and the sanitized style they are going for - shirtless Stamos in bed, lots of candles, gospel singers clapping, Stamos goofing off, and Stamos playing with babies (again while shirtless) (I think he had twins in the show so I think that's why there are twin babies in this video, but I'm not going to look that shit up). Carl, Mike, and Bruce are here to try to get that NBC viewer bump.

Song grade: D. Significant downgrade from the original. Though the drums don't sound as bad as everything else from that album and Stamos' voice really isn't that far off Dennis', the 90s schlock electric guitars and the messenger shatter the endearing appeal of the original.
Video grade:  D. It fits the vibe of the song I suppose - Pure cheese, too much Stamos brooding and mugging, too many babies.

Choice Youtube Comment: "still waiting for this absolute BANGER to be on spotify !!" - Bri B
Brian status - Still out of commission, thankfully.
Mike Love venom - Him cozing up to Stamos in the 80s is directly responsible for this shit.

Next time- Two left, next is the title track "Summer in Paradise." The first original from this album.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »

Bonus clip:


Train Wreckords turned me on to the existence of this and honestly, I prefer it to the SiP version.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

I say this not for effect but as stone-cold truth: Every song on Cut the Crap is better than this, and it's not even close.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 4:46pm
I say this not for effect but as stone-cold truth: Every song on Cut the Crap is better than this, and it's not even close.
About half of Summer in Paradise is entertainingly bad where was CTC is 100% entertainingly bad but also has that Joe energy.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 35803
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Flex »

D is an extremely, extremely generous grade here.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Post Reply