The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

General music discussion.
Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 5:55pm
One thing that's underrated is just how sexually repulsive the band became around this time. The Beach Boys have always been a (somewhat surprising, if you have their 60s public image in mind) pretty libidinous band in real life. But on record and in publicity materials and so forth they never really came off as leering creeps (I mean, other than in the lowkey way that Mike just naturally exudes at all times). That definitely changes by this point. Scantily clad ladies all several decades their junior dancing around their videos and in promotional materials and so forth, pretending to find any of these sacks of shit desirable (okay, Carl has some pretty GILFy energy). As that funny comment points out, Mike (and the whole band outside Carl really) are dressing like someone let them have a day pass out of the retirement castle to go perform their little concert. You can see Mike sticking his upper-middle-aged paunch out while ladies in their early 20s dance around him in bikinis. It's all quite repulsive and feels very rapey. Unfortunately, the vibe of "desiccated husks trying to get with high school girls" vibe the band (well, mostly Mike and Bruce) gives off here only get progressively worse from this point on - thankfully mostly relegated to live performances of the Mike and Bruce Boys, fortunately.
Mike Love's "moves"—that elbows-to-the-waist shuffling forward and back—evoke a creepy middle-aged guy trying to put the moves on a teenager at the bar. Like, hey, baby, I've got my own place *wink wink*. Which is maybe intentional? But you're right, it's equal parts creepy and sad.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25797
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 6:12pm
Flex wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 5:55pm
One thing that's underrated is just how sexually repulsive the band became around this time. The Beach Boys have always been a (somewhat surprising, if you have their 60s public image in mind) pretty libidinous band in real life. But on record and in publicity materials and so forth they never really came off as leering creeps (I mean, other than in the lowkey way that Mike just naturally exudes at all times). That definitely changes by this point. Scantily clad ladies all several decades their junior dancing around their videos and in promotional materials and so forth, pretending to find any of these sacks of shit desirable (okay, Carl has some pretty GILFy energy). As that funny comment points out, Mike (and the whole band outside Carl really) are dressing like someone let them have a day pass out of the retirement castle to go perform their little concert. You can see Mike sticking his upper-middle-aged paunch out while ladies in their early 20s dance around him in bikinis. It's all quite repulsive and feels very rapey. Unfortunately, the vibe of "desiccated husks trying to get with high school girls" vibe the band (well, mostly Mike and Bruce) gives off here only get progressively worse from this point on - thankfully mostly relegated to live performances of the Mike and Bruce Boys, fortunately.
Mike Love's "moves"—that elbows-to-the-waist shuffling forward and back—evoke a creepy middle-aged guy trying to put the moves on a teenager at the bar. Like, hey, baby, I've got my own place *wink wink*. Which is maybe intentional? But you're right, it's equal parts creepy and sad.
If he wants to know what moves teenage girls are actually into, he should just defer to his old dance moves:
Image
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 6:13pm
If he wants to know what moves teenage girls are actually into, he should just defer to his old dance moves:
Image
How can something be simultaneously hypnotic and repulsive?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by WestwayKid »



It doesn't get much creepier than this: a bunch of middle aged dudes with beards and cigarette coughs singing about "helping" an (I'd imagine teenaged) tomboy turn into a girl. Brian is listed as the sole writer on this track and it's hard to put it into context because Brian has always been weird, but he has at times been creepy weird and the late-70's were an especially lost time for him. The spoken word part at the end is the worst (and they're thankfully cut that part when they polished it up for the dreadful MIU Album).
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25797
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 7:05pm


It doesn't get much creepier than this: a bunch of middle aged dudes with beards and cigarette coughs singing about "helping" an (I'd imagine teenaged) tomboy turn into a girl. Brian is listed as the sole writer on this track and it's hard to put it into context because Brian has always been weird, but he has at times been creepy weird and the late-70's were an especially lost time for him. The spoken word part at the end is the worst (and they're thankfully cut that part when they polished it up for the dreadful MIU Album).
Between my Kokomo-era deep dive, trying "Keepin' the Summer Alive", the disco song, and this, I'm becoming more convinced that the Beach Boys were actually a really bad band.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:18am
WestwayKid wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 7:05pm


It doesn't get much creepier than this: a bunch of middle aged dudes with beards and cigarette coughs singing about "helping" an (I'd imagine teenaged) tomboy turn into a girl. Brian is listed as the sole writer on this track and it's hard to put it into context because Brian has always been weird, but he has at times been creepy weird and the late-70's were an especially lost time for him. The spoken word part at the end is the worst (and they're thankfully cut that part when they polished it up for the dreadful MIU Album).
Between my Kokomo-era deep dive, trying "Keepin' the Summer Alive", the disco song, and this, I'm becoming more convinced that the Beach Boys were actually a really bad band.
They were good at least through Holland, but the decline was hard and fast, so it begs the question: what caused their massive drop in quality? It can't just be Brian, because Brian was mostly MIA for albums like So Tough and Holland. I keep going back to Endless Summer, which thrust them back into the public conscience. I think after that - it became a constant rush job to get product out at the expense of quality or artistic growth. I don't think Mike or Al or Bruce had the chops to consistently write good material, but they could be good at schlock and pastiche of what they thought the public thought the band sounded like. Carl also wasn't a consistently good songwriter (though he did surprise now and then). Dennis was the true acolyte of Brian and as long as he was functioning, even their crummiest period had some solid tracks. Once Dennis was out of the picture and even Carl had checked out, it was just up to the clean living trio of Mike, Al, and Bruce to carry on.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25797
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:44am
matedog wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:18am
WestwayKid wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 7:05pm


It doesn't get much creepier than this: a bunch of middle aged dudes with beards and cigarette coughs singing about "helping" an (I'd imagine teenaged) tomboy turn into a girl. Brian is listed as the sole writer on this track and it's hard to put it into context because Brian has always been weird, but he has at times been creepy weird and the late-70's were an especially lost time for him. The spoken word part at the end is the worst (and they're thankfully cut that part when they polished it up for the dreadful MIU Album).
Between my Kokomo-era deep dive, trying "Keepin' the Summer Alive", the disco song, and this, I'm becoming more convinced that the Beach Boys were actually a really bad band.
They were good at least through Holland, but the decline was hard and fast, so it begs the question: what caused their massive drop in quality? It can't just be Brian, because Brian was mostly MIA for albums like So Tough and Holland. I keep going back to Endless Summer, which thrust them back into the public conscience. I think after that - it became a constant rush job to get product out at the expense of quality or artistic growth. I don't think Mike or Al or Bruce had the chops to consistently write good material, but they could be good at schlock and pastiche of what they thought the public thought the band sounded like. Carl also wasn't a consistently good songwriter (though he did surprise now and then). Dennis was the true acolyte of Brian and as long as he was functioning, even their crummiest period had some solid tracks. Once Dennis was out of the picture and even Carl had checked out, it was just up to the clean living trio of Mike, Al, and Bruce to carry on.
It's just hard because I'm so focused on what I'm finding out is a very long, dreadful period.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

WestwayKid wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:44am
matedog wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:18am
WestwayKid wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 7:05pm


It doesn't get much creepier than this: a bunch of middle aged dudes with beards and cigarette coughs singing about "helping" an (I'd imagine teenaged) tomboy turn into a girl. Brian is listed as the sole writer on this track and it's hard to put it into context because Brian has always been weird, but he has at times been creepy weird and the late-70's were an especially lost time for him. The spoken word part at the end is the worst (and they're thankfully cut that part when they polished it up for the dreadful MIU Album).
Between my Kokomo-era deep dive, trying "Keepin' the Summer Alive", the disco song, and this, I'm becoming more convinced that the Beach Boys were actually a really bad band.
They were good at least through Holland, but the decline was hard and fast, so it begs the question: what caused their massive drop in quality? It can't just be Brian, because Brian was mostly MIA for albums like So Tough and Holland. I keep going back to Endless Summer, which thrust them back into the public conscience. I think after that - it became a constant rush job to get product out at the expense of quality or artistic growth. I don't think Mike or Al or Bruce had the chops to consistently write good material, but they could be good at schlock and pastiche of what they thought the public thought the band sounded like. Carl also wasn't a consistently good songwriter (though he did surprise now and then). Dennis was the true acolyte of Brian and as long as he was functioning, even their crummiest period had some solid tracks. Once Dennis was out of the picture and even Carl had checked out, it was just up to the clean living trio of Mike, Al, and Bruce to carry on.
Or perhaps, like the vast majority of artists—like, it's the rule, with very few exceptions—they were a product of their time and environment. Talent only goes so far, it requires conditions to sync up and nurture it. The BBs were nurtured by and, in turn, nurtured the California 60s. It's not an indictment to say that when times and demographics evolved, they weren't able to fully adapt. Most artists can't. The idea of the transcendent artist is the exception to the rule, and when they fail it's not evidence of false artistry.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 35799
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Flex »

WestwayKid wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:44am
but they could be good at schlock and pastiche of what they thought the public thought the band sounded like.
I think they were mostly right about this, unfortunately.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:58am
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:44am
but they could be good at schlock and pastiche of what they thought the public thought the band sounded like.
I think they were mostly right about this, unfortunately.
Stick to the fucking formula, indeed.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by WestwayKid »

Flex wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:58am
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:44am
but they could be good at schlock and pastiche of what they thought the public thought the band sounded like.
I think they were mostly right about this, unfortunately.
Yup. I was born in 1977 - so my first taste of the band was their 80's schlock period. I was aware of some of the bigger hits from the 60's, but the Smiley Smile to Holland era was a blackhole - it was like that decade or so never happened.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by WestwayKid »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:54am
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:44am
matedog wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 10:18am
WestwayKid wrote:
23 Sep 2022, 7:05pm

It doesn't get much creepier than this: a bunch of middle aged dudes with beards and cigarette coughs singing about "helping" an (I'd imagine teenaged) tomboy turn into a girl. Brian is listed as the sole writer on this track and it's hard to put it into context because Brian has always been weird, but he has at times been creepy weird and the late-70's were an especially lost time for him. The spoken word part at the end is the worst (and they're thankfully cut that part when they polished it up for the dreadful MIU Album).
Between my Kokomo-era deep dive, trying "Keepin' the Summer Alive", the disco song, and this, I'm becoming more convinced that the Beach Boys were actually a really bad band.
They were good at least through Holland, but the decline was hard and fast, so it begs the question: what caused their massive drop in quality? It can't just be Brian, because Brian was mostly MIA for albums like So Tough and Holland. I keep going back to Endless Summer, which thrust them back into the public conscience. I think after that - it became a constant rush job to get product out at the expense of quality or artistic growth. I don't think Mike or Al or Bruce had the chops to consistently write good material, but they could be good at schlock and pastiche of what they thought the public thought the band sounded like. Carl also wasn't a consistently good songwriter (though he did surprise now and then). Dennis was the true acolyte of Brian and as long as he was functioning, even their crummiest period had some solid tracks. Once Dennis was out of the picture and even Carl had checked out, it was just up to the clean living trio of Mike, Al, and Bruce to carry on.
Or perhaps, like the vast majority of artists—like, it's the rule, with very few exceptions—they were a product of their time and environment. Talent only goes so far, it requires conditions to sync up and nurture it. The BBs were nurtured by and, in turn, nurtured the California 60s. It's not an indictment to say that when times and demographics evolved, they weren't able to fully adapt. Most artists can't. The idea of the transcendent artist is the exception to the rule, and when they fail it's not evidence of false artistry.
I think you're right on this. I agree they struggled to adapt and even throughout the 70s, they appeared to be one step behind - always trying to play catch up until they stopped trying and just retreated into the past. Luckily for them, a post-Vietnam/Watergate America was ready to retreat with them.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 35799
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Flex »

If anything it's something of a testament that, for all their fracturing talent and churn, the beach boys managed to give us a quality of music that ranged somewhere between "great" and "the best ever recorded" for like 2+ decades before the wheels really came off. It's a pretty elite circle of artists who have done as well or better than that.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 12:02pm
If anything it's something of a testament that, for all their fracturing talent and churn, the beach boys managed to give us a quality of music that ranged somewhere between "great" and "the best ever recorded" for like 2+ decades before the wheels really came off. It's a pretty elite circle of artists who have done as well or better than that.
Image
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 35799
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!

Re: The Thread to Ruminate About Mike Love's Rape Van

Post by Flex »

Yeah, a great example of a band still putting out music roughly as good as when they started. The elite. :cool:
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Post Reply