The Rolling Stones song you're thinking about right now thread

[WestwayKid]

I wonder why he feels the need to make her name a song by the band. She wears the t-shirt for fashion or just likes the design. She doesn't need to be a stones fan.

He's probably doing it in a friendly way, kidding around with student. That said, I fall on the the other side of the t-shirt question: if you're not a fan, you shouldn't be wearing their shirt. Every so often I want to get an Iron Reagan shirt, but I can't do it cos I ain't a fan.

That's complete and utter nonsense to me. There are millions of t shirt designs. Many people will not have a clue what the design means other than they like the image. If you like the Iron Reagan shirt you should wear one regardless. It's just an image at the end of the day. Providing it's not a political statement of hatred I see no reason why people shouldn't wear what they like oblivious to what group/organisation etc it's representing.

Band shirts signal fandom. It isn't just an image—it's a signal to others. Even when worn ironically—like that terrible KISS Yankees shirt that revbob got me—the joke is that someone would think I like that band/team.

I can't agree with that. Of course most wearers of a group etc will like the idea of promoting their fave artist or at least an artist they like. But if someone just likes the design I see no reason why they shouldn't enjoy wearing it either.

I see loads of young women wearing Pistols/Stones/Motorhead/Ramones shirts that are being sold and mass produced in high street chains as fashion accessories. I think it would be really snobbish of me to say hey you shouldn't be wearing that because you don't know any of their songs or who the lead singer is.

This came to the fore during the Stranger Things/Metallica thing last summer. Suddenly, lots of people (well, maybe not lots - but more than usual) were wearing Metallica t-shirts and there was some serious gate keeping by some of the band's hardcore fans: how dare you wear that shirt? What's the 4th track off Ride the Lightning (Fade to Black, if anyone is curious) and stuff like that. As obnoxious as certain members of that band can be, I liked their response: hey, we don't care when you discovered us, we welcome everyone.

[gkbill]

He's probably doing it in a friendly way, kidding around with student. That said, I fall on the the other side of the t-shirt question: if you're not a fan, you shouldn't be wearing their shirt. Every so often I want to get an Iron Reagan shirt, but I can't do it cos I ain't a fan.

That's complete and utter nonsense to me. There are millions of t shirt designs. Many people will not have a clue what the design means other than they like the image. If you like the Iron Reagan shirt you should wear one regardless. It's just an image at the end of the day. Providing it's not a political statement of hatred I see no reason why people shouldn't wear what they like oblivious to what group/organisation etc it's representing.

Band shirts signal fandom. It isn't just an image—it's a signal to others. Even when worn ironically—like that terrible KISS Yankees shirt that revbob got me—the joke is that someone would think I like that band/team.

I can't agree with that. Of course most wearers of a group etc will like the idea of promoting their fave artist or at least an artist they like. But if someone just likes the design I see no reason why they shouldn't enjoy wearing it either.

I see loads of young women wearing Pistols/Stones/Motorhead/Ramones shirts that are being sold and mass produced in high street chains as fashion accessories. I think it would be really snobbish of me to say hey you shouldn't be wearing that because you don't know any of their songs or who the lead singer is.

This came to the fore during the Stranger Things/Metallica thing last summer. Suddenly, lots of people (well, maybe not lots - but more than usual) were wearing Metallica t-shirts and there was some serious gate keeping by some of the band's hardcore fans: how dare you wear that shirt? What's the 4th track off Ride the Lightning (Fade to Black, if anyone is curious) and stuff like that. As obnoxious as certain members of that band can be, I liked their response: hey, we don't care when you discovered us, we welcome everyone.

Hello,

I would run into students wearing Ramones shirts who had no idea about the Ramones. Why do they wear the t-shirt? Because they think it's cool to be a Ramones fan. I would challenge them by saying something along the lines of "Well, why don't you listen to the Ramones and be a fan - rather than just look like a fan?". It's a question of sincerity.

[Marky Dread]

That's complete and utter nonsense to me. There are millions of t shirt designs. Many people will not have a clue what the design means other than they like the image. If you like the Iron Reagan shirt you should wear one regardless. It's just an image at the end of the day. Providing it's not a political statement of hatred I see no reason why people shouldn't wear what they like oblivious to what group/organisation etc it's representing.

Band shirts signal fandom. It isn't just an image—it's a signal to others. Even when worn ironically—like that terrible KISS Yankees shirt that revbob got me—the joke is that someone would think I like that band/team.

I can't agree with that. Of course most wearers of a group etc will like the idea of promoting their fave artist or at least an artist they like. But if someone just likes the design I see no reason why they shouldn't enjoy wearing it either.

I see loads of young women wearing Pistols/Stones/Motorhead/Ramones shirts that are being sold and mass produced in high street chains as fashion accessories. I think it would be really snobbish of me to say hey you shouldn't be wearing that because you don't know any of their songs or who the lead singer is.

This came to the fore during the Stranger Things/Metallica thing last summer. Suddenly, lots of people (well, maybe not lots - but more than usual) were wearing Metallica t-shirts and there was some serious gate keeping by some of the band's hardcore fans: how dare you wear that shirt? What's the 4th track off Ride the Lightning (Fade to Black, if anyone is curious) and stuff like that. As obnoxious as certain members of that band can be, I liked their response: hey, we don't care when you discovered us, we welcome everyone.

Hello,

I would run into students wearing Ramones shirts who had no idea about the Ramones. Why do they wear the t-shirt? Because they think it's cool to be a Ramones fan. I would challenge them by saying something along the lines of "Well, why don't you listen to the Ramones and be a fan - rather than just look like a fan?". It's a question of sincerity.

And when you see a student wearing a Nike shirt do you ask why they are not an athlete? Or students that wear a Nasa shirt why they are not an astronaut?

You don't have to be a Ramones fan to wear a Ramones shirt.

"Hey look at that student with the Ramones shirt I bet they don't even know what year Tommy quit drumming"

I'll also add that if you were to see a student wearing a shirt with The Eagles on it you wouldn't feel so compelled to act. Yet both bands have huge fan bases. What's important now is to appreciate how great the Ramones were but these days they are just another brand. "Blitzkrieg Bop" is being used to sell washing machines and tumble dryers for AO.

Get over it move on and stop being clothes nazi's. People can wear what they like. It's exactly what punk fought for in the first place. Don't be told what to wear and mix it up and wear whatever you like.

[coffeepotman]

Years ago I was wearing a Motorhead shirt and this random guy steps up to me all aggro saying you better know who Motorhead is. I jumped right back in his face and almost clobbered him but my wife prevented me. I was ready to kill him, how dare you question my musical or fashion choices. I bet he thought twice before doing that again

[Marky Dread]

Years ago I was wearing a Motorhead shirt and this random guy steps up to me all aggro saying you better know who Motorhead is. I jumped right back in his face and almost clobbered him but my wife prevented me. I was ready to kill him, how dare you question my musical or fashion choices. I bet he thought twice before doing that again

Good for you mate. It's all down to personal choice. Of course I know you know who Motorhead are. But if you didn't I would still think hey cool a Motorhead shirt.

[Dr. Medulla]

Get over it move on and stop being clothes nazi's. People can wear what they like. It's exactly what punk fought for in the first place. Don't be told what to wear and mix it up and wear whatever you like.

What's curious here is that this goes wholly against the point I was making the other day about your brilliant remixes/compilations—that they represent a proper—a superior!—emotional attachment to the music, not its commodification (that is, Sony's legal control of the music). That's what I'm talking about in terms of wearing a band/sports team shirt—you're asserting an emotional connection to the artist/team. When that's not there, it's just bland commodification. I'm certainly not saying you go apeshit if you find out that someone wearing a Clash shirt doesn't know any of their songs—that's just being an asshole—but there's nothing absurd about thinking they're a poseur or trying to gain points in wearing that shirt. It's little different than bandwagon fans who don't give a shit about the local team until they makes the finals, then, holy crap, get the jersey, the cap, and talk about how much they love them (and then put it away when the team doesn't win). They're faking an emotional relationship to look better and fit in, but they're actually just validating commodification—any jerk can buy the shirt and pass themselves off. These things should mean more than that.

[coffeepotman]

Years ago I was wearing a Motorhead shirt and this random guy steps up to me all aggro saying you better know who Motorhead is. I jumped right back in his face and almost clobbered him but my wife prevented me. I was ready to kill him, how dare you question my musical or fashion choices. I bet he thought twice before doing that again

Good for you mate. It's all down to personal choice. Of course I know you know who Motorhead are. But if you didn't I would still think hey cool a Motorhead shirt.

The are pretty cool, so are the Ramones shirts and for a while about 10 years ago everybody was wearing a CBGB shirt

[Marky Dread]

Get over it move on and stop being clothes nazi's. People can wear what they like. It's exactly what punk fought for in the first place. Don't be told what to wear and mix it up and wear whatever you like.

What's curious here is that this goes wholly against the point I was making the other day about your brilliant remixes/compilations—that they represent a proper—a superior!—emotional attachment to the music, not its commodification (that is, Sony's legal control of the music). That's what I'm talking about in terms of wearing a band/sports team shirt—you're asserting an emotional connection to the artist/team. When that's not there, it's just bland commodification. I'm certainly not saying you go apeshit if you find out that someone wearing a Clash shirt doesn't know any of their songs—that's just being an asshole—but there's nothing absurd about thinking they're a poseur or trying to gain points in wearing that shirt. It's little different than bandwagon fans who don't give a shit about the local team until they makes the finals, then, holy crap, get the jersey, the cap, and talk about how much they love them (and then put it away when the team doesn't win). They're faking an emotional relationship to look better and fit in, but they're actually just validating commodification—any jerk can buy the shirt and pass themselves off. These things should mean more than that.

Okay I suppose. But my input that goes into making the remasters/remixes etc is because I know what and how I feel something should or could sound with a little more effort. The fact that I'm kind enough to share here is to everyone's advantage.

With these t-shirts it's different it becomes defensive because people are getting annoyed and angry just because they feel the band is their special little piece of something. You don't hear the same people (fans if you like) complaining that the very same t-shirt that they took pride in is now being sold on mass in Walmart. But they are and it's all business that keeps food on the table for the remaining Ramones members and the bands families.

When I see a young kid/teenager I don't think oh look a bandwagon jumper. I think great they're wearing a Ramones t-shirt and not a another Pokemon t-shirt. With the kid chances are his mum and dad like the Ramones and with the teenager maybe they just bought the t-shirt because it looks cool and possibly affordable.

There are loads of tees on offer online etc with the tag "as worn by" _____ add your own artist here. Yet half the wearers don't know who the guy on the t-shirt is but hey it was worn by Joe Strummer so it must be cool right?

In fact no the Red Brigade were terrorists and definitely not cool.

[Flex]

Personally, I think we should all be required by law to exclusively wear shirts of bands we've never heard of before.

[Marky Dread]

Personally, I think we should all be required by law to exclusively wear shirts of bands we've never heard of before.

Except the Dave Matthews Band tho' right?

[Flex]

Personally, I think we should all be required by law to exclusively wear shirts of bands we've never heard of before.

Except the Dave Matthews Band tho' right?

Everyone gets Dave shirts

[Marky Dread]

Personally, I think we should all be required by law to exclusively wear shirts of bands we've never heard of before.

Except the Dave Matthews Band tho' right?

Everyone gets Dave shirts

Except you because you being a real true DMB fan won't wear it for ironic reasons.

[Dr. Medulla]

With these t-shirts it's different it becomes defensive because people are getting annoyed and angry just because they feel the band is their special little piece of something. You don't hear the same people (fans if you like) complaining that the very same t-shirt that they took pride in is now being sold on mass in Walmart. But they are and it's all business that keeps food on the table for the remaining Ramones members and the bands families.

That’s legit and is in the realm of Fugazi refusing to sell anything but records and gig tickets. Commodification is commodification, regardless of intent. I can respect that even if I think it’s overly purist.

When I see a young kid/teenager I don't think oh look a bandwagon jumper. I think great they're wearing a Ramones t-shirt and not a another Pokemon t-shirt. With the kid chances are his mum and dad like the Ramones and with the teenager maybe they just bought the t-shirt because it looks cool and possibly affordable.

I wouldn’t think bandwagon jumper either. I’d think they’re a fan. And maybe it’s an opening to discuss mutual fandom (okay, not the Ramones; not really a fan, but you know what I mean). And then if I’d find out they know nothing about the band it’d be dispiriting because it’s just another shirt to them (it looks cool, it’s what the cool kids are wearing, etc etc). I wouldn’t scream at them or lecture them, but it would be a negative assessment on their character.

There are loads of tees on offer online etc with the tag "as worn by" _____ add your own artist here. Yet half the wearers don't know who the guy on the t-shirt is but hey it was worn by Joe Strummer so it must be cool right?

The Boss bought me one of those for Christmas. It’s a shirt that Debbie Harry wore that just says “Punk” on it. I can’t bring myself to wear it because it’s so obvious and I have no emotional connection to the design.

[Dr. Medulla]

Personally, I think we should all be required by law to exclusively wear shirts of bands we've never heard of before.

Tangential point: When I defended my dissertation, one of my examiners critiqued me for using only big name theorists. Why didn’t I use people we’d never heard before? I replied that I wasn’t seeking to be a theorist, but was thinking, “If we’ve never heard of them, how the fuck would I know of them?”

[Flex]

Apart from my belief that the highest and best use of the state's monopoly on the legitimate use of violence is to make everyone wear Dave Matthews Band T-shirts, I do think it's weird to wear shirts you have no clue what they mean. Just because like... wouldn't you Google that shit? 99% of the time it's not a huge deal, you're just gonna accidentally make people think you have different taste in some art than you do, but every once in a while you may end up wearing a red brigade or che Guevara shirt or whatever and unintentionally communicating something much more serious.

It just seems so intellectually and culturally incurious. THAT'S probably what I'd judge someone negatively on.