The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Marky Dread
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:34am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:04am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:18am


For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
Yeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.
The same here. Plus for me Sex Pistols were a band not an artist.
Yeah very true but with some bands a certain member or members sort of become the face for the band for lack of a better term. Whether intended or not. Its similar for me in the way some bands shouldnt continue on after a certain member or member dies or otherwise leaves the band. And Id go back to the Dead Kennedys as an example. I think post Shane Pogues were a fine band but were so drastically different when Shane left. And the same could be said of Joe and Doc's buddy Vince with the Clash. They really should change the name. But that's a whole other thing isnt it.
I think it's important that although a face of the band grabs headlines. The other members of the band still need to grab their lunch.

I don't begrudge anyone who was part of something original carrying on and feeding their families. Of course whether they are any good or keep my interest is another matter altogether.
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revbob
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by revbob »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:47am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:34am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:04am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am


Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
Yeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.
The same here. Plus for me Sex Pistols were a band not an artist.
Yeah very true but with some bands a certain member or members sort of become the face for the band for lack of a better term. Whether intended or not. Its similar for me in the way some bands shouldnt continue on after a certain member or member dies or otherwise leaves the band. And Id go back to the Dead Kennedys as an example. I think post Shane Pogues were a fine band but were so drastically different when Shane left. And the same could be said of Joe and Doc's buddy Vince with the Clash. They really should change the name. But that's a whole other thing isnt it.
I think it's important that although a face of the band grabs headlines. The other members of the band still need to grab their lunch.

I don't begrudge anyone who was part of something original carrying on and feeding their families. Of course whether they are any good or keep my interest is another matter altogether.
Yeah I get that too because I realize from the standpoint of a band trying to earn a living with fickle fans and record companies a change of a band name could end or seriously derail a musicians career.

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:18am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am


I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
I had to get really good at that or I couldn't really be into anything. I'm not really willing to give up the things that REALLY mean something to me in favor of stuff that I just like.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Kory wrote:
04 Apr 2022, 2:56pm
I had to get really good at that or I couldn't really be into anything. I'm not really willing to give up the things that REALLY mean something to me in favor of stuff that I just like.
That's one of the challenges of being a rock fan versus a pop fan, based on the intellectual framework around both. Pop is purely a hedonistic experience, physical and emotional the whole way; it's defined in no small part by not appealing to our intellects. Rock wants to be more—political, artistic, authentic, moral, all those "higher" qualities. The demands on musician and audience are much greater, so we're always faced with contradictions to navigate among. Which we mostly do by compartmentalizing or shifting into pop hedonism mode when we're really stuck.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Kory wrote:
05 May 2022, 1:13pm
This guy is an idiot: https://unherd.com/2022/05/morrissey-wi ... svzQ51MB5g
Coupland has always been a self-important tool; glad to see he's stuck in amber.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 May 2022, 1:56pm
Kory wrote:
05 May 2022, 1:13pm
This guy is an idiot: https://unherd.com/2022/05/morrissey-wi ... svzQ51MB5g
Coupland has always been a self-important tool; glad to see he's stuck in amber.
Aside from the Morrissey stuff, I really didn't like his dismissal of the rest of the band.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Kory wrote:
05 May 2022, 2:52pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 May 2022, 1:56pm
Kory wrote:
05 May 2022, 1:13pm
This guy is an idiot: https://unherd.com/2022/05/morrissey-wi ... svzQ51MB5g
Coupland has always been a self-important tool; glad to see he's stuck in amber.
Aside from the Morrissey stuff, I really didn't like his dismissal of the rest of the band.
Yeah, there was nothing generic about the rhythm section. Just because Morrissey and Marr especially stand out doesn't mean that the rest of the band was Alpo.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by oliver »

I think if I were to assign a % value to each member, I'd go with:

Morrissey 38
Marr 34
Rourke 18
Joyce 9
Gannon 1

Morrissey gets a little more because of the sleeve design and aesthetic

I kind of feel bad giving MJ less than his 10% but I think his importance was that he wasn't a 'funky' drummer so probably reigned in Marr/Rourkes Freak Party style tendencies. Pure guesswork of course.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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oliver wrote:
05 May 2022, 4:47pm
I think if I were to assign a % value to each member, I'd go with:

Morrissey 38
Marr 34
Rourke 18
Joyce 9
Gannon 1

Morrissey gets a little more because of the sleeve design and aesthetic

I kind of feel bad giving MJ less than his 10% but I think his importance was that he wasn't a 'funky' drummer so probably reigned in Marr/Rourkes Freak Party style tendencies. Pure guesswork of course.
Joyce is severely underrated, I think. It’s hard to be that keyed into exactly what a song needs and fill that space with no more or less than that.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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https://www.nme.com/news/music/morrisse ... ge-3223182

Is his banter always this awkward?

“I love you, or most of you, or some of you, and God bless you.”

“We hope you like it, and if you don’t – you must die!”
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 May 2022, 12:22pm
https://www.nme.com/news/music/morrisse ... ge-3223182

Is his banter always this awkward?

“I love you, or most of you, or some of you, and God bless you.”

“We hope you like it, and if you don’t – you must die!”
Yeah, seems about right.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Kory wrote:
12 May 2022, 3:45pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 May 2022, 12:22pm
https://www.nme.com/news/music/morrisse ... ge-3223182

Is his banter always this awkward?

“I love you, or most of you, or some of you, and God bless you.”

“We hope you like it, and if you don’t – you must die!”
Yeah, seems about right.
I'm going to guess that it works better in person than in text.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by oliver »

I think it depends on his specific mood on the night. I've been to shows where he said next to nothing and rushed through the songs and I've been to shows where he's been very chatty and interactive with the crowd. Even when chatty though, it's a little awkward. He only really seems comfortable when singing.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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oliver wrote:
12 May 2022, 4:13pm
I think it depends on his specific mood on the night. I've been to shows where he said next to nothing and rushed through the songs and I've been to shows where he's been very chatty and interactive with the crowd. Even when chatty though, it's a little awkward. He only really seems comfortable when singing.
Weird for someone with the reputation for being a god to his most ardent fans. You expect a frontman be to be, not necessarily polished, but a rapport with the audience.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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