The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

[Marky Dread]

What I would genuinely be interested in knowing is if those musicians he currently plays with support any of his bullshit.

Assuming they don't share his political views, I would guess that they do what a lot of fans do (and are doing in Morrissey's case)—separate the art from the artist. Or, they're doing it strictly for the paycheque, tho if they can get hired by Morrissey, they can find work with others, I'd think. It'd be great if his band turned their back on him out of principle, but I can't begrudge them if they love the performance and the fans.

Some more info regards his latest covers album and those who have backed him musically.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/ ... s-politics

I think my main argument here now is that he still divides opinion. Why does he divide opinion? is my question just because he's Morrissey means he gets a pass. That's bullshit as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't accept it from anyone else so why should I with him.

[Dr. Medulla]

I think my main argument here now is that he still divides opinion. Why does he divide opinion? is my question just because he's Morrissey means he gets a pass. That's bullshit as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't accept it from anyone else so why should I with him.

I mentioned it yesterday regarding why it took so long for me to accept what he is—it seemed hard to square with a guy who sang about shy outsiders, animal rights, and the like. Those are attitudes more commonly found on the humanist left. So I chose to treat his sketchy (to be kind) comments and lyrics as ironic or persona, not sincerely held. It's still remarkably contradictory to me, but whatever admiration I grant him for those nobler positions, his support for vile politics and outright bigotry outweigh that. He's a mixed bag, but that awful is too awful for me. For others, the good still outweighs the awful, and that's fine with me. Where we draw our lines is our own choice.

[WestwayKid]

Let's not forget that allegations of racism have followed Morrissey for many, many years. It's something he flirted with from the get go and at times went beyond simply flirting with it. I don't know what his motivation is, but I also honestly don't care. Will I still listen to his music? Probably. Would I ever consider going to see him live again? No. I don't know if I'll even buy any of his new music. Whatever his motivation(s) are - they're not good. If he truly believes this stuff - he's a really bad dude. If he's just doing it to be provocative - he's still a really bad dude because he's spreading hurtful/hateful ideas for no other reason than to try and remain relevant. There is no good way to spin his behavior. I agree with Marky - I look at a band like the Clash and one of the main reasons I got into them and remain such a big fan is because they spent their career fighting this kind of crap. I'm proud to be a fan of the Clash because of what they stood for (and for what their music continues to stand for).

The music side. I can separate the two and I often think with The Smiths / Moz solo that he is just the mouthpiece and the other musicians are the sound of those bands. What I would genuinely be interested in knowing is if those musicians he currently plays with support any of his bullshit. I think the The Smiths and some of his early stuff is great but if I had to live without his music because of his bullshit I can live with that also. So many great artists to like that don't support his crap.

I think it's interesting that Johnny Marr - the musician he's most closely associated with - has been unwilling to engage about Morrissey and his opinions. He has said on several occasions that he is not friends with Morrissey. I think he knows people want him to denounce Morrissey, but thus far he's stayed out of the gutter. I would have to believe Johnny doesn't share Moz's opinions.

[Marky Dread]

I think my main argument here now is that he still divides opinion. Why does he divide opinion? is my question just because he's Morrissey means he gets a pass. That's bullshit as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't accept it from anyone else so why should I with him.

I mentioned it yesterday regarding why it took so long for me to accept what he is—it seemed hard to square with a guy who sang about shy outsiders, animal rights, and the like. Those are attitudes more commonly found on the humanist left. So I chose to treat his sketchy (to be kind) comments and lyrics as ironic or persona, not sincerely held. It's still remarkably contradictory to me, but whatever admiration I grant him for those nobler positions, his support for vile politics and outright bigotry outweigh that. He's a mixed bag, but that awful is too awful for me. For others, the good still outweighs the awful, and that's fine with me. Where we draw our lines is our own choice.

Choice is always for the individual on that there can be no argument. I only wonder if his vile political shenanigans are falling on deaf ears becuase of the undiluted dying love fans his fans have had for him over the years. The same dying love that's given him a huge inflated ego. I held back from drawing a line in the sand with him because I just couldn't believe he was racist other than stupid flirting to get a reaction but as soon as I saw that badge it was a case of ''I Know It's Over''.

[Dr. Medulla]

I think it's interesting that Johnny Marr - the musician he's most closely associated with - has been unwilling to engage about Morrissey and his opinions. He has said on several occasions that he is not friends with Morrissey. I think he knows people want him to denounce Morrissey, but thus far he's stayed out of the gutter. I would have to believe Johnny doesn't share Moz's opinions.

The interviews I've read, when Morrissey's fascist leanings are raised, have made it clear that he doesn't support any of that.

[Dr. Medulla]

Choice is always for the individual on that there can be no argument. I only wonder if his vile political shenanigans are falling on deaf ears becuase of the undiluted dying love fans his fans have had for him over the years. The same dying love that's given him a huge inflated ego. I held back from drawing a line in the sand with him because I just couldn't believe he was racist other than stupid flirting to get a reaction but as soon as I saw that badge it was a case of ''I Know It's Over''.

I remember reading a piece about why it's so hard for Trump supporters to accept that they've been conned by a grifter. The psychology behind, so this essay suggested, is that rather than get outraged, it is even more likely for the person who has been fooled to double down and bind themselves even closer to the grifter and denounce those who have exposed him/her. Better to continue following a conman than admit that you were a sucker. If this is accurate, yeah, the devotion that Morrissey has enjoyed and even earned has created a decent segment of his fanbase that would rather fight the evidence than accept that he's either become a fascist sympathizer or, worse, maybe that he always was. Or, as I said earlier, they separate art from artist, and value the music and ignore everything else.

[Marky Dread]

Choice is always for the individual on that there can be no argument. I only wonder if his vile political shenanigans are falling on deaf ears becuase of the undiluted dying love fans his fans have had for him over the years. The same dying love that's given him a huge inflated ego. I held back from drawing a line in the sand with him because I just couldn't believe he was racist other than stupid flirting to get a reaction but as soon as I saw that badge it was a case of ''I Know It's Over''.

I remember reading a piece about why it's so hard for Trump supporters to accept that they've been conned by a grifter. The psychology behind, so this essay suggested, is that rather than get outraged, it is even more likely for the person who has been fooled to double down and bind themselves even closer to the grifter and denounce those who have exposed him/her. Better to continue following a conman than admit that you were a sucker. If this is accurate, yeah, the devotion that Morrissey has enjoyed and even earned has created a decent segment of his fanbase that would rather fight the evidence than accept that he's either become a fascist sympathizer or, worse, maybe that he always was. Or, as I said earlier, they separate art from artist, and value the music and ignore everything else.

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

As for Trump...

[Dr. Medulla]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

[Silent Majority]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

I bet Milo Yiannopolis loves him.

[Marky Dread]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

Wasn't Hitler a vegetarian? I bet that fucker secretly wrote poetry about leaving the disco on his own.

[Dr. Medulla]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

I bet Milo Yiannopolis loves him.

Also Spencer; if he's a DM fan, he could be a Morrissey fan.

[Dr. Medulla]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

Wasn't Hitler a vegetarian? I bet that fucker secretly wrote poetry about leaving the disco on his own.

Yup re. being a vegetarian. Ironically, he was repulsed by blood. Also:

[WestwayKid]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

I'd say in the past couple of decades he seems to have tossed aside a lot of the fey ways and taken on a "tougher" persona.

[WestwayKid]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

Wasn't Hitler a vegetarian? I bet that fucker secretly wrote poetry about leaving the disco on his own.

I just read a book about the discovery of sulfa drugs and it was pointed out the Hitler banned all animal testing.

[Marky Dread]

Maybe his fan base will increase now. Plenty of nasty nazis out there.

That's the funny thing. Would Morrissey's veganism and somewhat fey demeanour play with the Nazi crowd? Or his embrace (or attempted co-option) of African Americans like James Baldwin? The stuff I find admirable might be the dealbreaker on the other side. Too radical for both sides?

Wasn't Hitler a vegetarian? I bet that fucker secretly wrote poetry about leaving the disco on his own.

Yup re. being a vegetarian. Ironically, he was repulsed by blood. Also:

Ah so another who dislikes KISS. Maybe Hitler wasn't all bad. No wait fuck that he's bound to love Phil Collins.