The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Kory
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 2:30pm
Kory wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 2:29pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 10:17am
I can't recall where Kory fell on the Great Earplug Debate, but this should clarify things some.
I have custom plugs that I got at the audiologist. They have changeable filters.
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One reason among many.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 2:32pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 2:30pm
Kory wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 2:29pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 10:17am
I can't recall where Kory fell on the Great Earplug Debate, but this should clarify things some.
I have custom plugs that I got at the audiologist. They have changeable filters.
Ah, that explains why Gene despised you so much.
One reason among many.
And most of them shared by the community!
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by WestwayKid »

I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

We all make choices in separating art from artist because, well, every artist does shit, says shit, and believes shit that we find objectionable. Some sins are minor and easy to overlook; some are big-ass elephants in the room. I don't look askance at people who still love Morrissey's music (Kory excepted for a whole lot of other reasons) if they're still good people and they can derive value in spite of what piece of shit the creator is. I have a hard time doing it now, but I still listen to Lydon (tho even that's less than before). Nobody ever buys the whole package and consumes it so passively. Enjoy it on your own terms and without guilt. (But you should probably pirate his stuff now.)
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
Enjoy what you like mate. You can't change the fact that he's a dick. I'm sure I've travelled on a bus where the driver was a complete dick head but the bus still got me to my destination and the ride was enjoyable. ;)
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by WestwayKid »

Marky Dread wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 1:11pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
Enjoy what you like mate. You can't change the fact that he's a dick. I'm sure I've travelled on a bus where the driver was a complete dick head but the bus still got me to my destination and the ride was enjoyable. ;)
Well said.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by drowninghere »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 12:10pm
We all make choices in separating art from artist because, well, every artist does shit, says shit, and believes shit that we find objectionable. Some sins are minor and easy to overlook; some are big-ass elephants in the room. I don't look askance at people who still love Morrissey's music (Kory excepted for a whole lot of other reasons) if they're still good people and they can derive value in spite of what piece of shit the creator is. I have a hard time doing it now, but I still listen to Lydon (tho even that's less than before). Nobody ever buys the whole package and consumes it so passively. Enjoy it on your own terms and without guilt. (But you should probably pirate his stuff now.)
Agree with this very much - do as you will but one possible line to draw is to continue to enjoy and appreciate the work that made you a fan in the first place, but back away from the new stuff entirely or, at a minimum, economically.

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Silent Majority »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
I actually see a connection in Cave's songwriting and performance to Morrissey's. They work from similar places.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:18pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
I actually see a connection in Cave's songwriting and performance to Morrissey's. They work from similar places.
I'd have bet money on Cave thinking Morrissey was a whiner.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Silent Majority »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:24pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:18pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
I actually see a connection in Cave's songwriting and performance to Morrissey's. They work from similar places.
I'd have bet money on Cave thinking Morrissey was a whiner.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Low Down Low »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
Likewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:40pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
Likewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.
Now YOU'VE gone too far :lol:
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
A good friend of mine teaches Jewish history and culture and had abandoned talking about Woody Allen's work because the amount of qualifying that he feels he has to do isn't worth it.
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