I'm glad to hear that because I was a bit 'meh' on first listen. I'll give it some more tries though because I feel I owe Johnny for the millions of hours I've spent listening to The Smiths.WestwayKid wrote: ↑08 Mar 2022, 11:17amI really like it. I agree that it takes a few listens to truly hit.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑03 Mar 2022, 6:09pmTwo very, very cool dudes. BTW, anyone listen to JM's new record and have thoughts? It's a grower but it's something I'm liking more and more. A lot of it is a me problem, that I have to let go of the idea that I'm going to hear something that might have been a Smiths song. He's moved on—a long time ago—but it's harder for me to let go of that false expectation.
The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Putting a little stick about. Putting the frighteners on flash little twerps
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58889
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
...and yet the first thing that person sees when they switch on their PC each morning is....
Morrissey wins here.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116000
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:06amKinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58889
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:33amI never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:06amKinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116000
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:52amThis is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:33amI never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:06amKinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58889
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:07amThe thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:52amThis is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:33amI never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:06amKinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Do I like his voice no, lyrics?, I could never get past just not liking the Smiths music(and his voice) to really listen to the lyrics to be quite honest.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:52amThis is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:33amI never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:06amKinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116000
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:18amFor me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:07amThe thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:52amThis is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:33amI never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:06amKinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Yeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:53amSome artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:18amFor me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:07amThe thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:52amThis is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58889
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I often question if it's actually selfish of us listeners/fans to assume that someone will simply remain the same and keep those same values/ideals we once admired them for.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:53amSome artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:18amFor me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:07amThe thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:52amThis is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
They have the right to their opinions and we have the right to send them to the cheapo bins.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58889
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
The same here. Plus for me Sex Pistols were a band not an artist.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 11:02amYeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:53amSome artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:18amFor me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:07amThe thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.
Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.
I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116000
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
For me, I think it’s more how much their work still speaks to me. Morrissey made more sense when I was a more obviously mopey person, but I’m not really that way anymore, so listening to the Smiths is some kind of mix of nostalgia and just plain appreciation of the musicianship. Lydon’s appeal has been past tense for a long time now—being fully honest, Album is the last PiL record I still love—so his revelation as a right-wing contrarian doesn’t dash expectations going forward. But the significance of those early records—it’s no exaggeration to say they saved me—means I’ll never fully walk away.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 11:02amYeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:53amSome artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
Selfish, yes, but not absurd to think that these people necessarily will become loathsome turds in their old age. And some people improve greatly. Michael Gira, for example, was an angry and stupidly confrontational guy well into his 30s, but is now a more reflective and encouraging kind of person. There’s still some demons and contradictions there, but the contemporary Gira is someone I’d say hello too; the guy from 1987 is someone I’d walk several blocks out of my way to avoid.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 11:02amI often question if it's actually selfish of us listeners/fans to assume that someone will simply remain the same and keep those same values/ideals we once admired them for.
They have the right to their opinions and we have the right to send them to the cheapo bins.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Yeah very true but with some bands a certain member or members sort of become the face for the band for lack of a better term. Whether intended or not. Its similar for me in the way some bands shouldnt continue on after a certain member or member dies or otherwise leaves the band. And Id go back to the Dead Kennedys as an example. I think post Shane Pogues were a fine band but were so drastically different when Shane left. And the same could be said of Joe and Doc's buddy Vince with the Clash. They really should change the name. But that's a whole other thing isnt it.Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 11:04amThe same here. Plus for me Sex Pistols were a band not an artist.revbob wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 11:02amYeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:53amSome artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).Marky Dread wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:18amFor me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2022, 10:07am
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.