The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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oliver
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by oliver »

WestwayKid wrote:
08 Mar 2022, 11:17am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Mar 2022, 6:09pm
Two very, very cool dudes. BTW, anyone listen to JM's new record and have thoughts? It's a grower but it's something I'm liking more and more. A lot of it is a me problem, that I have to let go of the idea that I'm going to hear something that might have been a Smiths song. He's moved on—a long time ago—but it's harder for me to let go of that false expectation.
I really like it. I agree that it takes a few listens to truly hit.
I'm glad to hear that because I was a bit 'meh' on first listen. I'll give it some more tries though because I feel I owe Johnny for the millions of hours I've spent listening to The Smiths.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Marky Dread
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

revbob wrote:
01 Apr 2022, 6:23pm
...and yet the first thing that person sees when they switch on their PC each morning is....

Morrissey wins here. :disshame:
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:06am
Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:06am
Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:06am
Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:06am
Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

revbob
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by revbob »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:06am
Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
Do I like his voice no, lyrics?, I could never get past just not liking the Smiths music(and his voice) to really listen to the lyrics to be quite honest.

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:18am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:06am
Kinda neat how in the 80s, Morrissey haters tended to be on the right, because he was vegetarian, anti-Thatcher/monarchy, suspected to be gay but certainly playfully effeminate, all things which, generally, won him support from the left. Now, it's his racism and xenophobia that generates the most heat, mostly from the left. Both left and right, as far as I can tell, now mostly ignores the 80s in assessing him.
I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:18am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am


I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
Yeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:18am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:33am


I never liked his music, him being a dick now is just a bonus.
This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
I often question if it's actually selfish of us listeners/fans to assume that someone will simply remain the same and keep those same values/ideals we once admired them for.

They have the right to their opinions and we have the right to send them to the cheapo bins.😏
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Marky Dread
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:18am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 9:52am


This is the thing though. Just like Lydon it wasn't his music only his voice and lyrics.

Can you separate the two. I know friends who hated Lydon's voice in just the same way as others hate Morrissey's.

I lost count how many times I've heard that Doc Medulla tell us his favourite Smiths song is an instrumental.
The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
Yeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.
The same here. Plus for me Sex Pistols were a band not an artist.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
Yeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.
For me, I think it’s more how much their work still speaks to me. Morrissey made more sense when I was a more obviously mopey person, but I’m not really that way anymore, so listening to the Smiths is some kind of mix of nostalgia and just plain appreciation of the musicianship. Lydon’s appeal has been past tense for a long time now—being fully honest, Album is the last PiL record I still love—so his revelation as a right-wing contrarian doesn’t dash expectations going forward. But the significance of those early records—it’s no exaggeration to say they saved me—means I’ll never fully walk away.
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:02am
I often question if it's actually selfish of us listeners/fans to assume that someone will simply remain the same and keep those same values/ideals we once admired them for.

They have the right to their opinions and we have the right to send them to the cheapo bins.😏
Selfish, yes, but not absurd to think that these people necessarily will become loathsome turds in their old age. And some people improve greatly. Michael Gira, for example, was an angry and stupidly confrontational guy well into his 30s, but is now a more reflective and encouraging kind of person. There’s still some demons and contradictions there, but the contemporary Gira is someone I’d say hello too; the guy from 1987 is someone I’d walk several blocks out of my way to avoid.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by revbob »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:04am
revbob wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:53am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:18am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2022, 10:07am


The thing is, I don’t hate Morrissey’s voice or lyrics one bit. At one point in my life, they (especially the lyrics) were a huge draw; now those qualities are a plus, but not super duper important to me. That “Oscillate Wildly” is my favourite Smiths song was never a dig at Morrissey, but just one of those things. There is some relief, if that’s the right word, that his confirmation as a loud and proud bigot hasn’t complicated my loving that song in the way that it does so many other Smiths tunes.
For me personally I have no problem being able to disassociate the young Lydon/Morrissey (artist of your choice) from their 50/60 year old parodies.

Am I disappointed...yes. Am I surprised...no.
Some artists I can dissociate early appeal from contemporary contempt, some I can’t. Morrissey is really really hard; Lydon is hard, but I still listen to the Pistols and early PiL. But I certainly don’t judge people who successfully compartmentalize either (I kinda envy them, I guess).
Yeah NMTB just made such an impression, impact for me that I can separate art/artist. I would feel the same about the DKs/Jello's music if he seemed to suddenly turn conservative. I think its the initial impact that makes a difference for me.
The same here. Plus for me Sex Pistols were a band not an artist.
Yeah very true but with some bands a certain member or members sort of become the face for the band for lack of a better term. Whether intended or not. Its similar for me in the way some bands shouldnt continue on after a certain member or member dies or otherwise leaves the band. And Id go back to the Dead Kennedys as an example. I think post Shane Pogues were a fine band but were so drastically different when Shane left. And the same could be said of Joe and Doc's buddy Vince with the Clash. They really should change the name. But that's a whole other thing isnt it.

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