Music opinion/question of the week...

[motorsmell]

If you make music for anyone other then yourself you become the shite that's paraded as "Punk radicalism" on BBC 6...my band segrëgates made music like Motorhead because I fucking love Motorhead...I knew we would get the copycat commentary...but that was the point....we did it because we wanted to and not because it was the flavour of the month...

I just checked out Sands of Time and it's great!

Cheers, that's the B side to Preach to me.... available on red vinyl! Hahaha

[Silent Majority]

I've quoted this before, but it's a huge lever that turns my thinking about this stuff. Phil Chevron once said to me (and all the other people who were posting on the Pogues forum at the time) "Other people's opinion of my work is none of my business." I think that's a good philosophy around it, but of course it had implicit the idea that other people will consume the work.

[Marky Dread]

The thing about requiring an audience is once you have one you need to sustain it. But the thought that artists making music just solely for that audience doesn't sit right with me. Better to fail producing something you love and are proud of than churning out something just for the sake of appeasing the crowd.

[gkbill]

The thing about requiring an audience is once you have one you need to sustain it. But the thought that artists making music just solely for that audience doesn't sit right with me. Better to fail producing something you love and are proud of than churning out something just for the sake of appeasing the crowd.

Hello,

These ideas come up in my classes frequently. You can be both intriniscally and extrinsically motivated. The extrinsic motivation should be informational rather than controlling. It's how you blend and balance the two.

[Marky Dread]

The thing about requiring an audience is once you have one you need to sustain it. But the thought that artists making music just solely for that audience doesn't sit right with me. Better to fail producing something you love and are proud of than churning out something just for the sake of appeasing the crowd.

Hello,

These ideas come up in my classes frequently. You can be both intriniscally and extrinsically motivated. The extrinsic motivation should be informational rather than controlling. It's how you blend and balance the two.

Yeah I genuinely can see both sides. I feel new young artists should be pleasing themselves at what they choose to play. But the established artist will feel compelled to play a style of music that keeps bread on the table. That's why I admired The Clash so much. Punk in spirit but brave enough to tackle many genres of music.

[Flex]

I've quoted this before, but it's a huge lever that turns my thinking about this stuff. Phil Chevron once said to me (and all the other people who were posting on the Pogues forum at the time) "Other people's opinion of my work is none of my business." I think that's a good philosophy around it, but of course it had implicit the idea that other people will consume the work.

I like this because it implies more of a respectful distance than, say, disdain.

[JennyB]

I wonder what people think when it's a band previously known for greatness that just releases absolute, empirically shitty music (i.e. Kokomo) vs. just doing something in a different genre that's decent (like EC).

[Flex]

I wonder what people think when it's a band previously known for greatness that just releases absolute, empirically shitty music (i.e. Kokomo) vs. just doing something in a different genre that's decent (like EC).

Yeah, the beach boys are actually a good case study here. They released an 11 minute disco version of an old song of there's! It was shit! It was obvious trend chasing that they had no clue what to do with. I think it's fair for an audience to criticize that kind of shit.

[Dr. Medulla]

I wonder what people think when it's a band previously known for greatness that just releases absolute, empirically shitty music (i.e. Kokomo) vs. just doing something in a different genre that's decent (like EC).

Yeah, the beach boys are actually a good case study here. They released an 11 minute disco version of an old song of there's! It was shit! It was obvious trend chasing that they had no clue what to do with. I think it's fair for an audience to criticize that kind of shit.

But, just to extend the conversation, how do we know it was trend chasing as opposed to curiosity (what would it sound like if we took an old song and applied it to this approach?)? Are we more tolerant when it's a "sincere" attempt that fails? That is, do we care mostly about "what's in their heart" rather than the results?

[Marky Dread]

I wonder what people think when it's a band previously known for greatness that just releases absolute, empirically shitty music (i.e. Kokomo) vs. just doing something in a different genre that's decent (like EC).

Yeah, the beach boys are actually a good case study here. They released an 11 minute disco version of an old song of there's! It was shit! It was obvious trend chasing that they had no clue what to do with. I think it's fair for an audience to criticize that kind of shit.

But, just to extend the conversation, how do we know it was trend chasing as opposed to curiosity (what would it sound like if we took an old song and applied it to this approach?)? Are we more tolerant when it's a "sincere" attempt that fails? That is, do we care mostly about "what's in their heart" rather than the results?

Surely it must be down to the execution and what actually works.

[Dr. Medulla]

I wonder what people think when it's a band previously known for greatness that just releases absolute, empirically shitty music (i.e. Kokomo) vs. just doing something in a different genre that's decent (like EC).

Yeah, the beach boys are actually a good case study here. They released an 11 minute disco version of an old song of there's! It was shit! It was obvious trend chasing that they had no clue what to do with. I think it's fair for an audience to criticize that kind of shit.

But, just to extend the conversation, how do we know it was trend chasing as opposed to curiosity (what would it sound like if we took an old song and applied it to this approach?)? Are we more tolerant when it's a "sincere" attempt that fails? That is, do we care mostly about "what's in their heart" rather than the results?

Surely it must be down to the execution and what actually works.

I dunno. Anecdotally, I'd say we tend to judge more harshly records that we think are made as cash-ins rather than those that are more sincere flops, even if the results are equally craptastic. We aren't wholly invested in aesthetics, but do apply some politics or sociology or psychology to it all.

[Wolter]

In that very specific case it’s very obvious in hindsight what The Beach Boys were doing. And I suspect in the time it happened it was also, because by the late 70s it became very clear that the financial success of 15 Big Ones and that one Greatest Hits (Endless Summer, I think) versus the failure of the personal, left field music of “Love You” had put one Michael Love in the drivers’ seat for the duration.

[Wolter]

As a follow up, I especially believe it would’ve seemed more like genuine curiosity if they had kept exploring the form instead of it clearly being a one off.

[Marky Dread]

I wonder what people think when it's a band previously known for greatness that just releases absolute, empirically shitty music (i.e. Kokomo) vs. just doing something in a different genre that's decent (like EC).

Yeah, the beach boys are actually a good case study here. They released an 11 minute disco version of an old song of there's! It was shit! It was obvious trend chasing that they had no clue what to do with. I think it's fair for an audience to criticize that kind of shit.

But, just to extend the conversation, how do we know it was trend chasing as opposed to curiosity (what would it sound like if we took an old song and applied it to this approach?)? Are we more tolerant when it's a "sincere" attempt that fails? That is, do we care mostly about "what's in their heart" rather than the results?

Surely it must be down to the execution and what actually works.

I dunno. Anecdotally, I'd say we tend to judge more harshly records that we think are made as cash-ins rather than those that are more sincere flops, even if the results are equally craptastic. We aren't wholly invested in aesthetics, but do apply some politics or sociology or psychology to it all.

There were an awful lot of bands that were accused of jumping on the punk bandwagon that made some fantastic records. Personally I couldn't care less if someone is cashing in on the latest trend as long as the song is good. Plastic Bertrand springs instantly to mind.

[Dr. Medulla]

Yeah, the beach boys are actually a good case study here. They released an 11 minute disco version of an old song of there's! It was shit! It was obvious trend chasing that they had no clue what to do with. I think it's fair for an audience to criticize that kind of shit.

But, just to extend the conversation, how do we know it was trend chasing as opposed to curiosity (what would it sound like if we took an old song and applied it to this approach?)? Are we more tolerant when it's a "sincere" attempt that fails? That is, do we care mostly about "what's in their heart" rather than the results?

Surely it must be down to the execution and what actually works.

I dunno. Anecdotally, I'd say we tend to judge more harshly records that we think are made as cash-ins rather than those that are more sincere flops, even if the results are equally craptastic. We aren't wholly invested in aesthetics, but do apply some politics or sociology or psychology to it all.

There were an awful lot of bands that were accused of jumping on the punk bandwagon that made some fantastic records. Personally I couldn't care less if someone is cashing in on the latest trend as long as the song is good. Plastic Bertrand springs instantly to mind.

But we're talking about shitty records here. Are we more forgiving of shitty records that were made for sincere reasons?