Music opinion/question of the week...

General music discussion.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid » 15 Feb 2019, 5:01pm

101Walterton wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 4:39pm
Very interesting debate with no right or wrong answers. My personal view is similar to Heston’s in that the crimes committed by GG and LP are so serious I cannot seperate them from the person / music.
Marky you raise an interesting point about punishing the innocent members of a band through lack of royalties but as we know royalties funded GG raping children through SE Asia for years and probably bought his freedom from prosecution allowing him to continue his crimes.
Another interesting angle is what do we do with covers? I personally like Joan Jett's cover of GG's "Do You Wanna Touch Me" and I don't feel that icky about it because it's one generation removed from GG.

Lori Mattix claims she lost her virginity to David Bowie when she was 14. If that's true - it's pretty creepy. She was in middle school when it happened. It makes me feel icky - but I'm also not going to throw my Bowie albums in the trash.

The crimes of guys like GG or Ian Watkins are horrible. They deserve to be locked up. I have zero sympathy for them. If Ryan Adams gets tossed in jail for his online fling with a 14-year-old - I also won't feel bad for him. That said - why do we give guys like Bowie and Page and Jagger a pass? My god, how many underage girls had Gene Simmons slept with?
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid » 15 Feb 2019, 5:05pm

How would we react if it came to light that Joe Strummer had a relationship/fling/whatever with a 14-year-old fan?
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by revbob » 15 Feb 2019, 5:07pm

WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 11:48am
It does raise the question of can we separate the artist from the art and should we even if we could?
I've said it before I have a hard time doing this. Hell Exene has nearly ruined X for me because of her insane level of batshit craziness and that's all legal and I rarely listen to the Who anymore because of Pete Townsend's shady actions.

As for some of the things you mentioned about Bowie/Jagger and no doubt countless others I wont excuse that but I will say those were actions from a less enlightened time. Yes it was still very wrong but like a lot of things when it comes to sex (adult women with underage boys) society in the past was more forgiving. Groupies were seen as "wanting it" and the drug excesses helped feed that.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid » 15 Feb 2019, 5:31pm

revbob wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 5:07pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 11:48am
It does raise the question of can we separate the artist from the art and should we even if we could?
I've said it before I have a hard time doing this. Hell Exene has nearly ruined X for me because of her insane level of batshit craziness and that's all legal and I rarely listen to the Who anymore because of Pete Townsend's shady actions.

As for some of the things you mentioned about Bowie/Jagger and no doubt countless others I wont excuse that but I will say those were actions from a less enlightened time. Yes it was still very wrong but like a lot of things when it comes to sex (adult women with underage boys) society in the past was more forgiving. Groupies were seen as "wanting it" and the drug excesses helped feed that.
I agree that it was a less enlightened time. Townshend is an interesting case. He was officially cleared - but his story still feels kind of gross. Yet, it hasn't apparently impacted his career.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 15 Feb 2019, 5:50pm

revbob wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 5:07pm
As for some of the things you mentioned about Bowie/Jagger and no doubt countless others I wont excuse that but I will say those were actions from a less enlightened time. Yes it was still very wrong but like a lot of things when it comes to sex (adult women with underage boys) society in the past was more forgiving. Groupies were seen as "wanting it" and the drug excesses helped feed that.
That's the thing to remember about the late 60s and much of the 70s. The sexual revolution hit a reset on so many sexual mores, and if it did well to destigmatize premarital sex and homosexuality, it unfortunately explored age of consent. Plus the 70s was the heyday of the indulgent, hedonistic rock star. So judgement should be tempered—but not voided—by an awareness of historical cultural conditions.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by revbob » 15 Feb 2019, 6:40pm

WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 5:31pm
revbob wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 5:07pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 11:48am
It does raise the question of can we separate the artist from the art and should we even if we could?
I've said it before I have a hard time doing this. Hell Exene has nearly ruined X for me because of her insane level of batshit craziness and that's all legal and I rarely listen to the Who anymore because of Pete Townsend's shady actions.

As for some of the things you mentioned about Bowie/Jagger and no doubt countless others I wont excuse that but I will say those were actions from a less enlightened time. Yes it was still very wrong but like a lot of things when it comes to sex (adult women with underage boys) society in the past was more forgiving. Groupies were seen as "wanting it" and the drug excesses helped feed that.
I agree that it was a less enlightened time. Townshend is an interesting case. He was officially cleared - but his story still feels kind of gross. Yet, it hasn't apparently impacted his career.
Yeah it just seems like it could be something a rich guy was able to buy his way out of. I hope that's not the case.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 7:01pm

101Walterton wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 4:39pm
Very interesting debate with no right or wrong answers. My personal view is similar to Heston’s in that the crimes committed by GG and LP are so serious I cannot seperate them from the person / music.
Marky you raise an interesting point about punishing the innocent members of a band through lack of royalties but as we know royalties funded GG raping children through SE Asia for years and probably bought his freedom from prosecution allowing him to continue his crimes.
I do not doubt that is true.

All the music I like by him & The Glitter Band was recorded and released between 1972-1975. He was made bankrupt in 1977 and was declared bankrupt a second time in the 1990s. The irony for some us being his influence on post-punk, new wave, Britpop was what gave him back his finances along with the Timelords (KLF) "Doctorin' the Tardis" which used "Rock & Roll (Pt. 2)" as it's theme and got to No. 1.

Please do not take the following to be a dig at you mate it's just stating the facts.

I take it you'll never listen to the No. 1 multi-million selling Oasis album "(What's the Story) Morning Glory?" for sampling "Hello, Hello, I'm Back Again". So those royalties you speak of are less to do with the money his original run of singles made and much more to do with stuff that came later on.

How many times in the 70s/80s did you stand on the terraces and sing "Hello, Hello, It's good to be Back". This is how I'm able to separate the music from the artist. A good song is simply a good song a bad person is just that, BAD!

No one knew Glitter would turn out the way he did and become an utter disgraceful human being. The thought that money from the sales of The Timelords & Oasis is what most likely paid for his freedom (he did have an autobiography that sold well also) after his dispicable acts in Thailand are completely sickening. Thousands of people around the world enjoying those two artists unknowingly contributed to his heinous acts.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 7:10pm

WestwayKid wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 5:05pm
How would we react if it came to light that Joe Strummer had a relationship/fling/whatever with a 14-year-old fan?
He couldn't reach me from the stage at Victoria Park. ;)
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by 101Walterton » 15 Feb 2019, 7:44pm

Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 7:01pm
101Walterton wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 4:39pm
Very interesting debate with no right or wrong answers. My personal view is similar to Heston’s in that the crimes committed by GG and LP are so serious I cannot seperate them from the person / music.
Marky you raise an interesting point about punishing the innocent members of a band through lack of royalties but as we know royalties funded GG raping children through SE Asia for years and probably bought his freedom from prosecution allowing him to continue his crimes.
I do not doubt that is true.

All the music I like by him & The Glitter Band was recorded and released between 1972-1975. He was made bankrupt in 1977 and was declared bankrupt a second time in the 1990s. The irony for some us being his influence on post-punk, new wave, Britpop was what gave him back his finances along with the Timelords (KLF) "Doctorin' the Tardis" which used "Rock & Roll (Pt. 2)" as it's theme and got to No. 1.

Please do not take the following to be a dig at you mate it's just stating the facts.

I take it you'll never listen to the No. 1 multi-million selling Oasis album "(What's the Story) Morning Glory?" for sampling "Hello, Hello, I'm Back Again". So those royalties you speak of are less to do with the money his original run of singles made and much more to do with stuff that came later on.

How many times in the 70s/80s did you stand on the terraces and sing "Hello, Hello, It's good to be Back". This is how I'm able to separate the music from the artist. A good song is simply a good song a bad person is just that, BAD!

No one knew Glitter would turn out the way he did and become an utter disgraceful human being. The thought that money from the sales of The Timelords & Oasis is what most likely paid for his freedom (he did have an autobiography that sold well also) after his dispicable acts in Thailand are completely sickening. Thousands of people around the world enjoying those two artists unknowingly contributed to his heinous acts.
Great point never even thought of it. It is a real can of worms.
My understanding was that it was NBA or NHL (can’t remember which) in America that bankrolled him for years with their use of his song at the games

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by revbob » 15 Feb 2019, 7:59pm

101Walterton wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 7:44pm
...
Great point never even thought of it. It is a real can of worms.
My understanding was that it was NBA or NHL (can’t remember which) in America that bankrolled him for years with their use of his song at the games
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 15 Feb 2019, 8:02pm

101Walterton wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 7:44pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 7:01pm
101Walterton wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 4:39pm
Very interesting debate with no right or wrong answers. My personal view is similar to Heston’s in that the crimes committed by GG and LP are so serious I cannot seperate them from the person / music.
Marky you raise an interesting point about punishing the innocent members of a band through lack of royalties but as we know royalties funded GG raping children through SE Asia for years and probably bought his freedom from prosecution allowing him to continue his crimes.
I do not doubt that is true.

All the music I like by him & The Glitter Band was recorded and released between 1972-1975. He was made bankrupt in 1977 and was declared bankrupt a second time in the 1990s. The irony for some us being his influence on post-punk, new wave, Britpop was what gave him back his finances along with the Timelords (KLF) "Doctorin' the Tardis" which used "Rock & Roll (Pt. 2)" as it's theme and got to No. 1.

Please do not take the following to be a dig at you mate it's just stating the facts.

I take it you'll never listen to the No. 1 multi-million selling Oasis album "(What's the Story) Morning Glory?" for sampling "Hello, Hello, I'm Back Again". So those royalties you speak of are less to do with the money his original run of singles made and much more to do with stuff that came later on.

How many times in the 70s/80s did you stand on the terraces and sing "Hello, Hello, It's good to be Back". This is how I'm able to separate the music from the artist. A good song is simply a good song a bad person is just that, BAD!

No one knew Glitter would turn out the way he did and become an utter disgraceful human being. The thought that money from the sales of The Timelords & Oasis is what most likely paid for his freedom (he did have an autobiography that sold well also) after his dispicable acts in Thailand are completely sickening. Thousands of people around the world enjoying those two artists unknowingly contributed to his heinous acts.
Great point never even thought of it. It is a real can of worms.
My understanding was that it was NBA or NHL (can’t remember which) in America that bankrolled him for years with their use of his song at the games
Yep I expect that are many outlets where the music has been licenced. It would be good to know that any future sales could go to the other musicians that made that music and keep Glitters share for charity helping victims of abuse. But I expect that's not legal.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Heston » 15 Feb 2019, 11:56pm

Well i never bankrolled any Oasis because they were shit.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 16 Feb 2019, 6:18am

Heston wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 11:56pm
Well i never bankrolled any Oasis because they were shit.
Well that's you in the clear then. Definitely...maybe.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by coffeepotman » 16 Feb 2019, 9:41am

There are some pretty despicable acts that are glamorized, take Gene Simmons and Ted Nugent bragging to Rolling Stones Stray Cat Blues, the list is pretty long, Page, Bowie probably even the Beatles. I just try to separate the art from the artist. Simmons and Nugent I can't stand but for the others it's difficult.

Also what young people today don't understand is that in the 70's and early 80's you could be 14 or 15 and get into clubs, get drinks and see bands. you can't do that anymore.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 16 Feb 2019, 10:24am

coffeepotman wrote:
16 Feb 2019, 9:41am
There are some pretty despicable acts that are glamorized, take Gene Simmons and Ted Nugent bragging to Rolling Stones Stray Cat Blues, the list is pretty long, Page, Bowie probably even the Beatles. I just try to separate the art from the artist. Simmons and Nugent I can't stand but for the others it's difficult.

Also what young people today don't understand is that in the 70's and early 80's you could be 14 or 15 and get into clubs, get drinks and see bands. you can't do that anymore.
That's true for the most part. I know loads of people younger than that that still get in. But restrictions are tighter now.

I suppose there will always be the age old (excuse the pun this time) excuse that they looked older. It's easy to look back and say oh they were very different times but the musicians/actors etc know exactly what they did and expected to get away with it. I dread to think what debauchery may have taken place when bands like The Velvet Underground decided to re-write the rules.
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