Music opinion/question of the week...

General music discussion.
Wolter
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Wolter » 28 May 2019, 1:51pm

I actually feel the backlash against the Doors is severe enough at this point that they may be underrated by people under the age of about 30. If Twitter is any judgement, they are universally reviled by anyone born after about 1990.

I’m not saying they’re an all-time great band. But they have a few decent songs, even if Morrison was just the fucking worst.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 28 May 2019, 1:53pm

Wolter wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:51pm
I actually feel the backlash against the Doors is severe enough at this point that they may be underrated by people under the age of about 30. If Twitter is any judgement, they are universally reviled by anyone born after about 1990.

I’m not saying they’re an all-time great band. But they have a few decent songs, even if Morrison was just the fucking worst.
Agree with this. They are definitely a band worth investigating.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 28 May 2019, 1:53pm

Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:38pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:33pm
I mean what's the impetus to be creative when people are going to fill out the stadium no matter what you release
Yet, you'd think that that kind of assured market (plus a gorillion dollars in the bank) would give them the freedom to be more creative. Whatever people think of Radiohead's music—and I ain't a fan of most of it after OKC—they took their mainstream success and ran the other way with it.
I don't think the money issue matters. Radiohead and U2 don't make so good music nowadays. Irrespective of the freedom money gives you I think most artists make their best work when they are up against things financially and have something worth saying.
I think the former is coincidental, that it is mostly the latter. At a certain point, yeah, most artists run out of things to say or how to say them that isn't regurgitation. Our standard of evaluation tends to adjust for all that. Wire ain't never going to release a record that compares with Chairs Missing or 154, but that doesn't mean I won't like future records that are clearly working the same turf over.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 28 May 2019, 1:56pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:53pm
Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:38pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:33pm
I mean what's the impetus to be creative when people are going to fill out the stadium no matter what you release
Yet, you'd think that that kind of assured market (plus a gorillion dollars in the bank) would give them the freedom to be more creative. Whatever people think of Radiohead's music—and I ain't a fan of most of it after OKC—they took their mainstream success and ran the other way with it.
I don't think the money issue matters. Radiohead and U2 don't make so good music nowadays. Irrespective of the freedom money gives you I think most artists make their best work when they are up against things financially and have something worth saying.
I think the former is coincidental, that it is mostly the latter. At a certain point, yeah, most artists run out of things to say or how to say them that isn't regurgitation. Our standard of evaluation tends to adjust for all that. Wire ain't never going to release a record that compares with Chairs Missing or 154, but that doesn't mean I won't like future records that are clearly working the same turf over.
Yes I agree with this. But I will say this also Wire and U2 are two totally different beasts and have different things to live up to.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Low Down Low » 28 May 2019, 1:58pm

Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:48pm
Low Down Low wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:46pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:33pm
Low Down Low wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:22pm
Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:13pm


Those first few U2 albums are really good. The later stuff has a couple of really stong songs but overall they disappoint. All this separating the music from the artist goes without saying.
I was a huge U2 fan right up to War. After that i like Achtung Baby and that's about it. Theres the Joshua Tree which has some good songs but doesn't merit its legendary reputation to my mind. But that is just my opinion. I just feel only the most blinkered of fans could speak up for a lot of the mediocrity they have been releasing over the past 15-20 years and more.
I mean what's the impetus to be creative when people are going to fill out the stadium no matter what you release
Well, Pride (in the name of love) for one thing! But i suspect its probably more of a case of a band being 40 years on the go with no change in personnel and running out of creative juice. Actually i think they reached that point many moons ago, how many bands go more than, say, 15-20 years on the go and still retain the creative spark and impetus of their early years? Not many i would hazard a guess...
Simple answer is none. It's wrong for us to expect that but that doesn't mean there can't still be good music.
That is true. A lot of the artists i like to listen now tend to have been around decades but they're mostly solo performers so its harder to keep a band dynamic going for a long period of time. For whatever reason U2 have never tried to diverse, or go off and do a solo project or collaborate with other bands with a couple of rare exceptions. I think the key to longetivity as regards quality in music is reinvention and while they've tried a few tricks with the last few albums, i dont think they have been successful.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 28 May 2019, 2:02pm

Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:56pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:53pm
Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:38pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:33pm
I mean what's the impetus to be creative when people are going to fill out the stadium no matter what you release
Yet, you'd think that that kind of assured market (plus a gorillion dollars in the bank) would give them the freedom to be more creative. Whatever people think of Radiohead's music—and I ain't a fan of most of it after OKC—they took their mainstream success and ran the other way with it.
I don't think the money issue matters. Radiohead and U2 don't make so good music nowadays. Irrespective of the freedom money gives you I think most artists make their best work when they are up against things financially and have something worth saying.
I think the former is coincidental, that it is mostly the latter. At a certain point, yeah, most artists run out of things to say or how to say them that isn't regurgitation. Our standard of evaluation tends to adjust for all that. Wire ain't never going to release a record that compares with Chairs Missing or 154, but that doesn't mean I won't like future records that are clearly working the same turf over.
Yes I agree with this. But I will say this also Wire and U2 are two totally different beasts and have different things to live up to.
Yeah, definitely. Wire were potentially poised for mainstream success in 78/79 but it's just not in their DNA to pursue it. They come from that tradition of being suspicious of mass acceptance in a way that U2 have a junkie's need.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Kory » 28 May 2019, 2:09pm

Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:51pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:38pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:33pm
I mean what's the impetus to be creative when people are going to fill out the stadium no matter what you release
Yet, you'd think that that kind of assured market (plus a gorillion dollars in the bank) would give them the freedom to be more creative. Whatever people think of Radiohead's music—and I ain't a fan of most of it after OKC—they took their mainstream success and ran the other way with it.
Right, which is even more reason to dislike them. They are lazy.
Is that really the case Kory? I think a lot of their money goes into spectacular stage shows etc. Maybe if they put as much energy into the music as these big events we would get something better. I don't think it's simply a case of lazyness.
Well yeah, that's what I'm saying. They are lazy songwriters.
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Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 28 May 2019, 2:10pm

Low Down Low wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:58pm
Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:48pm
Low Down Low wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:46pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:33pm
Low Down Low wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:22pm


I was a huge U2 fan right up to War. After that i like Achtung Baby and that's about it. Theres the Joshua Tree which has some good songs but doesn't merit its legendary reputation to my mind. But that is just my opinion. I just feel only the most blinkered of fans could speak up for a lot of the mediocrity they have been releasing over the past 15-20 years and more.
I mean what's the impetus to be creative when people are going to fill out the stadium no matter what you release
Well, Pride (in the name of love) for one thing! But i suspect its probably more of a case of a band being 40 years on the go with no change in personnel and running out of creative juice. Actually i think they reached that point many moons ago, how many bands go more than, say, 15-20 years on the go and still retain the creative spark and impetus of their early years? Not many i would hazard a guess...
Simple answer is none. It's wrong for us to expect that but that doesn't mean there can't still be good music.
That is true. A lot of the artists i like to listen now tend to have been around decades but they're mostly solo performers so its harder to keep a band dynamic going for a long period of time. For whatever reason U2 have never tried to diverse, or go off and do a solo project or collaborate with other bands with a couple of rare exceptions. I think the key to longetivity as regards quality in music is reinvention and while they've tried a few tricks with the last few albums, i dont think they have been successful.
Well yeah but no as U2 have done more than most bands as to other projects. Lots of soundtracks and collaborations to be honest.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Kory » 28 May 2019, 2:12pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:02pm
Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:56pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:53pm
Marky Dread wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:38pm


Yet, you'd think that that kind of assured market (plus a gorillion dollars in the bank) would give them the freedom to be more creative. Whatever people think of Radiohead's music—and I ain't a fan of most of it after OKC—they took their mainstream success and ran the other way with it.
I don't think the money issue matters. Radiohead and U2 don't make so good music nowadays. Irrespective of the freedom money gives you I think most artists make their best work when they are up against things financially and have something worth saying.
I think the former is coincidental, that it is mostly the latter. At a certain point, yeah, most artists run out of things to say or how to say them that isn't regurgitation. Our standard of evaluation tends to adjust for all that. Wire ain't never going to release a record that compares with Chairs Missing or 154, but that doesn't mean I won't like future records that are clearly working the same turf over.
Yes I agree with this. But I will say this also Wire and U2 are two totally different beasts and have different things to live up to.
Yeah, definitely. Wire were potentially poised for mainstream success in 78/79 but it's just not in their DNA to pursue it. They come from that tradition of being suspicious of mass acceptance in a way that U2 have a junkie's need.
This is one of the reasons I feel so squicked out about being in the band I'm in. I have part of that same impulse to spurn ideas that are palatable.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by drowninghere » 28 May 2019, 2:14pm

I think, as whole, we tend to underestimate the value of older artists' work simply because we (the audience) have largely heard what they have had to say before. Regardless of how much a band or solo artist might try to diversify, they all have an essential 'voice' or 'sound' or 'song' that it is virtually impossible to get away from, and the listener tires to it (to a degree) and judges the latter output worse than the former as a result, when the reality is that often the latter is very comparable to the former, it's just that we heard the earlier output first. Putting it another way, if the albums were released in their reverse chronological order, I am certain a lot of latter albums would be viewed very differently, and a lot of 'classic' debut albums would be greeted with a yawn.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 28 May 2019, 2:16pm

Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:12pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:02pm
Yeah, definitely. Wire were potentially poised for mainstream success in 78/79 but it's just not in their DNA to pursue it. They come from that tradition of being suspicious of mass acceptance in a way that U2 have a junkie's need.
This is one of the reasons I feel so squicked out about being in the band I'm in. I have part of that same impulse to spurn ideas that are palatable.
As I recall, that was my wariness about you joining—your tastes and ambitions are vanguardist. And there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to scratch your itch best you can in those circumstances.
Poonty, boloques, juffmunch, carpoo, snazellfonks.

Marky Dread
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 28 May 2019, 2:18pm

drowninghere wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:14pm
I think, as whole, we tend to underestimate the value of older artists' work simply because we (the audience) have largely heard what they have had to say before. Regardless of how much a band or solo artist might try to diversify, they all have an essential 'voice' or 'sound' or 'song' that it is virtually impossible to get away from, and the listener tires to it (to a degree) and judges the latter output worse than the former as a result, when the reality is that often the latter is very comparable to the former, it's just that we heard the earlier output first. Putting it another way, if the albums were released in their reverse chronological order, I am certain a lot of latter albums would be viewed very differently, and a lot of 'classic' debut albums would be greeted with a yawn.
Cut the Crap > The Clash. No that don't work for me. :scared:
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Kory
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Kory » 28 May 2019, 2:41pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:16pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:12pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:02pm
Yeah, definitely. Wire were potentially poised for mainstream success in 78/79 but it's just not in their DNA to pursue it. They come from that tradition of being suspicious of mass acceptance in a way that U2 have a junkie's need.
This is one of the reasons I feel so squicked out about being in the band I'm in. I have part of that same impulse to spurn ideas that are palatable.
As I recall, that was my wariness about you joining—your tastes and ambitions are vanguardist. And there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to scratch your itch best you can in those circumstances.
Oh yeah, i forgot to tell you—after a particularly frustrating multiple-day argument with "the bandleader," I decided to quit the group. We are going into the studio next week and then I'm going to wait until my songwriting credits are concrete, maybe play a couple last shows and then bow out. I'll likely wind up letting them know around October, if the release schedule is any indication. A great weight felt lifted from me once I made the decision.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 28 May 2019, 2:44pm

Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:41pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:16pm
Kory wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:12pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 May 2019, 2:02pm
Yeah, definitely. Wire were potentially poised for mainstream success in 78/79 but it's just not in their DNA to pursue it. They come from that tradition of being suspicious of mass acceptance in a way that U2 have a junkie's need.
This is one of the reasons I feel so squicked out about being in the band I'm in. I have part of that same impulse to spurn ideas that are palatable.
As I recall, that was my wariness about you joining—your tastes and ambitions are vanguardist. And there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to scratch your itch best you can in those circumstances.
Oh yeah, i forgot to tell you—after a particularly frustrating multiple-day argument with "the bandleader," I decided to quit the group. We are going into the studio next week and then I'm going to wait until my songwriting credits are concrete, maybe play a couple last shows and then bow out. I'll likely wind up letting them know around October, if the release schedule is any indication. A great weight felt lifted from me once I made the decision.
It's a shame that you couldn't make it work to your mutual satisfaction, but it gave an outlet for a while and confirmed what you want and don't want.
Poonty, boloques, juffmunch, carpoo, snazellfonks.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by JennyB » 28 May 2019, 2:54pm

Wolter wrote:
28 May 2019, 1:51pm
I actually feel the backlash against the Doors is severe enough at this point that they may be underrated by people under the age of about 30. If Twitter is any judgement, they are universally reviled by anyone born after about 1990.

I’m not saying they’re an all-time great band. But they have a few decent songs, even if Morrison was just the fucking worst.
I think there's a huge Gen X backlash because of the stupid movie and that they were our parents' music. Now that I have some distance from that, and considering all of the bands I love who cite them as an influence, I'm more forgiving toward them. I will never love them, but I don't actively hate them.
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