He has become a very poor caricature of his former self.
He wants the adulation of being an outsider with the material luxury of being an insider. But he can't the fact that he identifies with the worst of the insiders now—the rich assholes who believe they're above criticism from their lessers. I can see why he sympathizes with Trump or the royals—all victims of criticism from people they see having no business questioning them.
If I feel anything towards John these days then it would be sadness in as much as the young man whose bravery inspired me didn't have the courage of conviction to see it through till the end. But as I said further up I have no right to expect anyone to keep those same values for a lifetime. Shame.
It sucks when you take a chance and claim someone as inspiration and they show you to be foolish for doing so. Sure, they aren't living their lives for any of us, but unmasking or devolving into the opposite stinks. It doesn't have to be that way. So, yeah, sadness.
I don't consider myself fooled by John. I see it differently as I took inspiration from a young man fighting against the establishment and authorities and for good reason. And in some small part changing people's values at that time.
I would only consider myself "to be foolish" if I continued to believe in his bullshit which I haven't done so since the early 80s when he stopped making sense to me. I can't deny that I still believe he has every right to change his mind and maybe even his heart but I will never support those changes. It maybe that John started out being contrary just to stop people defining him but that stubborn bullshit has now become entrenched in every interview he gives. As far as I'm concerned anyone who comes out and supports Trump a man who would openly deny others the choice of movement can fuck right off.
Maybe we don't know the real John or maybe we do. Either way the John that is currently on show to the world is someone I care very little for.
Maybe foolish wasn’t quite the right word I wanted, but there is certainly an emotional quality in it all for me. The guy was key to me actively escaping the norms of where I grew up and still view the mainstream, and seeing him become an advocate of the worst of those things cuts. He still serves some kind of purpose, I guess, in being an example of what not to become as you age.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
He wants the adulation of being an outsider with the material luxury of being an insider. But he can't the fact that he identifies with the worst of the insiders now—the rich assholes who believe they're above criticism from their lessers. I can see why he sympathizes with Trump or the royals—all victims of criticism from people they see having no business questioning them.
If I feel anything towards John these days then it would be sadness in as much as the young man whose bravery inspired me didn't have the courage of conviction to see it through till the end. But as I said further up I have no right to expect anyone to keep those same values for a lifetime. Shame.
It sucks when you take a chance and claim someone as inspiration and they show you to be foolish for doing so. Sure, they aren't living their lives for any of us, but unmasking or devolving into the opposite stinks. It doesn't have to be that way. So, yeah, sadness.
I don't consider myself fooled by John. I see it differently as I took inspiration from a young man fighting against the establishment and authorities and for good reason. And in some small part changing people's values at that time.
I would only consider myself "to be foolish" if I continued to believe in his bullshit which I haven't done so since the early 80s when he stopped making sense to me. I can't deny that I still believe he has every right to change his mind and maybe even his heart but I will never support those changes. It maybe that John started out being contrary just to stop people defining him but that stubborn bullshit has now become entrenched in every interview he gives. As far as I'm concerned anyone who comes out and supports Trump a man who would openly deny others the choice of movement can fuck right off.
Maybe we don't know the real John or maybe we do. Either way the John that is currently on show to the world is someone I care very little for.
Maybe foolish wasn’t quite the right word I wanted, but there is certainly an emotional quality in it all for me. The guy was key to me actively escaping the norms of where I grew up and still view the mainstream, and seeing him become an advocate of the worst of those things cuts. He still serves some kind of purpose, I guess, in being an example of what not to become as you age.
Yes that hits the nail succinctly on its proverbial head. I can still openly admire that young man.
Be careful who you follow what you wish for people.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
If I feel anything towards John these days then it would be sadness in as much as the young man whose bravery inspired me didn't have the courage of conviction to see it through till the end. But as I said further up I have no right to expect anyone to keep those same values for a lifetime. Shame.
It sucks when you take a chance and claim someone as inspiration and they show you to be foolish for doing so. Sure, they aren't living their lives for any of us, but unmasking or devolving into the opposite stinks. It doesn't have to be that way. So, yeah, sadness.
I don't consider myself fooled by John. I see it differently as I took inspiration from a young man fighting against the establishment and authorities and for good reason. And in some small part changing people's values at that time.
I would only consider myself "to be foolish" if I continued to believe in his bullshit which I haven't done so since the early 80s when he stopped making sense to me. I can't deny that I still believe he has every right to change his mind and maybe even his heart but I will never support those changes. It maybe that John started out being contrary just to stop people defining him but that stubborn bullshit has now become entrenched in every interview he gives. As far as I'm concerned anyone who comes out and supports Trump a man who would openly deny others the choice of movement can fuck right off.
Maybe we don't know the real John or maybe we do. Either way the John that is currently on show to the world is someone I care very little for.
Maybe foolish wasn’t quite the right word I wanted, but there is certainly an emotional quality in it all for me. The guy was key to me actively escaping the norms of where I grew up and still view the mainstream, and seeing him become an advocate of the worst of those things cuts. He still serves some kind of purpose, I guess, in being an example of what not to become as you age.
Yes that hits the nail succinctly on its proverbial head. I can still openly admire that young man.
Be careful who you follow what you wish for people.
I'm like an old pro now at this kind of thing, so many of the people I really care about have turned out to be at the very least, pretty suspect. Woody, Moz, Dave Sim, Lydon. It doesn't stop me from still enjoying their work, but it makes it a little difficult to talk about my major influences in mixed company.
Also John Lydon: “Good riddance to bad rubbish,” re. Elvis’ death.
Yeah but 1977 was the year of punk so that statement was very par for the time.
If I was to take aim at Lydon it would be the "she ain't no human being" line in GStQ.
But again as with the "Elvis" quote it's all of it's time for him.
I agree completely. My point is that if Lydon were being honest here and on so many other issues, he'd say, "yeah, I'm older and I reject a lot of what I said and believed and how I behaved when I was 21." Which is perfectly sensible—how many of us don't laugh at or wince at the 21-year-old version of ourselves? But he won't do that. I wants to claim consistency and perfect principle, and it's everyone else who fails the test. Offhand, the closest I can think of his claiming regret about abandoning Sid because of his age and what he was going thru. That's legit, but so much with him lacks that capacity to own up to who he is.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Also, when was the last time Lydon played that song? 2008?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
Also John Lydon: “Good riddance to bad rubbish,” re. Elvis’ death.
Yeah but 1977 was the year of punk so that statement was very par for the time.
If I was to take aim at Lydon it would be the "she ain't no human being" line in GStQ.
But again as with the "Elvis" quote it's all of it's time for him.
I agree completely. My point is that if Lydon were being honest here and on so many other issues, he'd say, "yeah, I'm older and I reject a lot of what I said and believed and how I behaved when I was 21." Which is perfectly sensible—how many of us don't laugh at or wince at the 21-year-old version of ourselves? But he won't do that. I wants to claim consistency and perfect principle, and it's everyone else who fails the test. Offhand, the closest I can think of his claiming regret about abandoning Sid because of his age and what he was going thru. That's legit, but so much with him lacks that capacity to own up to who he is.
Yes that would great if he made a statement to that effect. But he loves to play Johnny Rotten when it suits him and John Lydon when it doesn't. I find his attitude boring.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
Also, when was the last time Lydon played that song? 2008?
Is it relevant though even if it hadn't been played since 1977? It exists so will be played forever more.
I’m still not understanding his position. He doesn’t actually hate the queen as a person just the institution of the monarchy and that’s what the song was always about?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
Also John Lydon: “Good riddance to bad rubbish,” re. Elvis’ death.
Yeah but 1977 was the year of punk so that statement was very par for the time.
If I was to take aim at Lydon it would be the "she ain't no human being" line in GStQ.
But again as with the "Elvis" quote it's all of it's time for him.
I agree completely. My point is that if Lydon were being honest here and on so many other issues, he'd say, "yeah, I'm older and I reject a lot of what I said and believed and how I behaved when I was 21." Which is perfectly sensible—how many of us don't laugh at or wince at the 21-year-old version of ourselves? But he won't do that. I wants to claim consistency and perfect principle, and it's everyone else who fails the test. Offhand, the closest I can think of his claiming regret about abandoning Sid because of his age and what he was going thru. That's legit, but so much with him lacks that capacity to own up to who he is.
Yes that would great if he made a statement to that effect. But he loves to play Johnny Rotten when it suits him and John Lydon when it doesn't. I find his attitude boring.
Right! And, again, if he were honest about that shit, at least we wouldn't be talking about hypocrisy or circumstantial sliding principles. Wanting it both ways makes him a far more pathetic figure than just being a Tory. He's fucking Boris Johnson wanting to claim to being a Clash fan while representing everything the band loathed. One or the other, Johnny.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Also, when was the last time Lydon played that song? 2008?
Is it relevant though even if it hadn't been played since 1977? It exists so will be played forever more.
I’m still not understanding his position. He doesn’t actually hate the queen as a person just the institution of the monarchy and that’s what the song was always about?
That's what he claims, but when you also say you love the pomp and pageantry and Rule Britannia and all that, fuck off, you love the monarchy, too. He just doesn't want to have to pay for it.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Also, when was the last time Lydon played that song? 2008?
Is it relevant though even if it hadn't been played since 1977? It exists so will be played forever more.
I’m still not understanding his position. He doesn’t actually hate the queen as a person just the institution of the monarchy and that’s what the song was always about?
That's what he claims, but when you also say you love the pomp and pageantry and Rule Britannia and all that, fuck off, you love the monarchy, too. He just doesn't want to have to pay for it.
Loving the empire but disliking that he, personally (a proper Englishman!), pays taxes for its primary symbol is hypercube Tory-brain. I know everyone is agreeing that it would be fine if he just admitted this was his position, but I actually find it quite repulsive even if he ever decides to be honest about it.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Also, when was the last time Lydon played that song? 2008?
Is it relevant though even if it hadn't been played since 1977? It exists so will be played forever more.
I’m still not understanding his position. He doesn’t actually hate the queen as a person just the institution of the monarchy and that’s what the song was always about?
That's what he claims, but when you also say you love the pomp and pageantry and Rule Britannia and all that, fuck off, you love the monarchy, too. He just doesn't want to have to pay for it.
Loving the empire but disliking that he, personally (a proper Englishman!), pays taxes for its primary symbol is hypercube Tory-brain. I know everyone is agreeing that it would be fine if he just admitted this was his position, but I actually find it quite repulsive even if he ever decides to be honest about it.
Oh, it's still repulsive, but I prefer people be open about their values and the contradictions. We don't need to play dumb games.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
