Sex Pistols

[Marky Dread]

John has spent untold time and energy making Malcolm out to be a cunt over the years (maybe he was...). The irony is that John has turned out to be one himself. Shame.

The difference, perhaps, is that McLaren happily told people he was a con artist—tho claiming deeper intellectual and political sophistication to it all—whereas Lydon continues the delusion that he's a man of the people and all that. In both cases, thanks for the art and the inspiration, but I wouldn't want to be in the presence of either (well, Lydon, given McLaren is scamming angels or demons now).

Valid points. The Swindle continues

They both have suffered from believing in their own myth.

[Gimmix]

John has spent untold time and energy making Malcolm out to be a cunt over the years (maybe he was...). The irony is that John has turned out to be one himself. Shame.

The difference, perhaps, is that McLaren happily told people he was a con artist—tho claiming deeper intellectual and political sophistication to it all—whereas Lydon continues the delusion that he's a man of the people and all that. In both cases, thanks for the art and the inspiration, but I wouldn't want to be in the presence of either (well, Lydon, given McLaren is scamming angels or demons now).

Valid points. The Swindle continues

They both have suffered from believing in their own myth.

Nail. Head.

[Dr. Medulla]

John has spent untold time and energy making Malcolm out to be a cunt over the years (maybe he was...). The irony is that John has turned out to be one himself. Shame.

The difference, perhaps, is that McLaren happily told people he was a con artist—tho claiming deeper intellectual and political sophistication to it all—whereas Lydon continues the delusion that he's a man of the people and all that. In both cases, thanks for the art and the inspiration, but I wouldn't want to be in the presence of either (well, Lydon, given McLaren is scamming angels or demons now).

Valid points. The Swindle continues

The passage of time has actually validated a lot of McLaren's ideas about the swindle. Kinda funny that the old con man actually accidentally spoke some truth.

[Marky Dread]

John has spent untold time and energy making Malcolm out to be a cunt over the years (maybe he was...). The irony is that John has turned out to be one himself. Shame.

The difference, perhaps, is that McLaren happily told people he was a con artist—tho claiming deeper intellectual and political sophistication to it all—whereas Lydon continues the delusion that he's a man of the people and all that. In both cases, thanks for the art and the inspiration, but I wouldn't want to be in the presence of either (well, Lydon, given McLaren is scamming angels or demons now).

Valid points. The Swindle continues

The passage of time has actually validated a lot of McLaren's ideas about the swindle. Kinda funny that the old con man actually accidentally spoke some truth.

For all of Malcolm's bullshit he was treated really badly in court regards the film. Yes he misused the money to make the film but to suggest that the stuff in the film was anything other than a made up story was really dumb.

As soon as Jones and Cook realised the court was going to side with Lydon they soon jumped ship.

Malcolm needed the band for the myth making and the band needed Malcolm and his ability to turn a small story into an epic and secure their success.

[Dr. Medulla]

John has spent untold time and energy making Malcolm out to be a cunt over the years (maybe he was...). The irony is that John has turned out to be one himself. Shame.

The difference, perhaps, is that McLaren happily told people he was a con artist—tho claiming deeper intellectual and political sophistication to it all—whereas Lydon continues the delusion that he's a man of the people and all that. In both cases, thanks for the art and the inspiration, but I wouldn't want to be in the presence of either (well, Lydon, given McLaren is scamming angels or demons now).

Valid points. The Swindle continues

The passage of time has actually validated a lot of McLaren's ideas about the swindle. Kinda funny that the old con man actually accidentally spoke some truth.

For all of Malcolm's bullshit he was treated really badly in court regards the film. Yes he misused the money to make the film but to suggest that the stuff in the film was anything other than a made up story was really dumb.

I'm often amused by people who complain about Swindle being bullshit. Yeah. That's the point. McLaren wasn't exactly hiding that it, and everything else about the entertainment industry, is a lie to get you to buy things. As much of a vulture as that man was, I do quite like that flick as cultural criticism.

Malcolm needed the band for the myth making and the band needed Malcolm and his ability to turn a small story into an epic and secure their success.

Exactly. He was terrible, but he was an important factor in their success.

[Kory]

The difference, perhaps, is that McLaren happily told people he was a con artist—tho claiming deeper intellectual and political sophistication to it all—whereas Lydon continues the delusion that he's a man of the people and all that. In both cases, thanks for the art and the inspiration, but I wouldn't want to be in the presence of either (well, Lydon, given McLaren is scamming angels or demons now).

Valid points. The Swindle continues

The passage of time has actually validated a lot of McLaren's ideas about the swindle. Kinda funny that the old con man actually accidentally spoke some truth.

For all of Malcolm's bullshit he was treated really badly in court regards the film. Yes he misused the money to make the film but to suggest that the stuff in the film was anything other than a made up story was really dumb.

I'm often amused by people who complain about Swindle being bullshit. Yeah. That's the point. McLaren wasn't exactly hiding that it, and everything else about the entertainment industry, is a lie to get you to buy things. As much of a vulture as that man was, I do quite like that flick as cultural criticism.

Malcolm needed the band for the myth making and the band needed Malcolm and his ability to turn a small story into an epic and secure their success.

Exactly. He was terrible, but he was an important factor in their success.

I can't stand the animated sequences in that film. They're very off-putting.

[Dr. Medulla]

I can't stand the animated sequences in that film. They're very off-putting.

They certainly look of their time, but I don't mind them. And I love the single-album version's cover inspired by it.


edit: I would swear that I had a mounted poster of this, yet I can't find it anywhere in the basement. Either I gave it away or I never actually owned it. I just rectify that.

[Marky Dread]

I can't stand the animated sequences in that film. They're very off-putting.

They certainly look of their time, but I don't mind them. And I love the single-album version's cover inspired by it.


edit: I would swear that I had a mounted poster of this, yet I can't find it anywhere in the basement. Either I gave it away or I never actually owned it. I just rectify that.

I like all the animation done by Animation City for the movie. But I get where Kory is coming from the juxtaposition is very jarring. In one of the scenes where the band are going to the A&M offices both Matlock and Sid are featured in the car?

[Dr. Medulla]

I can't stand the animated sequences in that film. They're very off-putting.

They certainly look of their time, but I don't mind them. And I love the single-album version's cover inspired by it.


edit: I would swear that I had a mounted poster of this, yet I can't find it anywhere in the basement. Either I gave it away or I never actually owned it. I just rectify that.

I like all the animation done by Animation City for the movie. But I get where Kory is coming from the juxtaposition is very jarring. In one of the scenes where the band are going to the A&M offices both Matlock and Sid are featured in the car?

It'd be nice to think it's another sly joke about all the lies in the movie, but it's probably just sloppy.

[Marky Dread]

I can't stand the animated sequences in that film. They're very off-putting.

They certainly look of their time, but I don't mind them. And I love the single-album version's cover inspired by it.


edit: I would swear that I had a mounted poster of this, yet I can't find it anywhere in the basement. Either I gave it away or I never actually owned it. I just rectify that.

I like all the animation done by Animation City for the movie. But I get where Kory is coming from the juxtaposition is very jarring. In one of the scenes where the band are going to the A&M offices both Matlock and Sid are featured in the car?

It'd be nice to think it's another sly joke about all the lies in the movie, but it's probably just sloppy.

Yeah would approve if it's the former. And yes I am sad enough to have spotted it.

[Dr. Medulla]

I can't stand the animated sequences in that film. They're very off-putting.

They certainly look of their time, but I don't mind them. And I love the single-album version's cover inspired by it.


edit: I would swear that I had a mounted poster of this, yet I can't find it anywhere in the basement. Either I gave it away or I never actually owned it. I just rectify that.

I like all the animation done by Animation City for the movie. But I get where Kory is coming from the juxtaposition is very jarring. In one of the scenes where the band are going to the A&M offices both Matlock and Sid are featured in the car?

It'd be nice to think it's another sly joke about all the lies in the movie, but it's probably just sloppy.

Yeah would approve if it's the former. And yes I am sad enough to have spotted it.

I'll admit that I never noticed. Been many years since I watched it, too. I remember where I first saw it, tho. I was an undergrad in Saskatoon and the Student Union brought it in. It was this legendary document to me that existed yet I couldn't obtain a copy—pre-DVD, no legal VHS copies around. I just stared at the screen the whole time, like having cracked the vault. Those kinds of thrills are so rare.

[Marky Dread]

They certainly look of their time, but I don't mind them. And I love the single-album version's cover inspired by it.


edit: I would swear that I had a mounted poster of this, yet I can't find it anywhere in the basement. Either I gave it away or I never actually owned it. I just rectify that.

I like all the animation done by Animation City for the movie. But I get where Kory is coming from the juxtaposition is very jarring. In one of the scenes where the band are going to the A&M offices both Matlock and Sid are featured in the car?

It'd be nice to think it's another sly joke about all the lies in the movie, but it's probably just sloppy.

Yeah would approve if it's the former. And yes I am sad enough to have spotted it.

I'll admit that I never noticed. Been many years since I watched it, too. I remember where I first saw it, tho. I was an undergrad in Saskatoon and the Student Union brought it in. It was this legendary document to me that existed yet I couldn't obtain a copy—pre-DVD, no legal VHS copies around. I just stared at the screen the whole time, like having cracked the vault. Those kinds of thrills are so rare.

I saw it at the cinema in London when it came out. Then later it was aired here on Channel 4 and I recorded it on VHS and I wore that tape out. I've had the official VHS release but now I've got it on DVD and watched it just a few days ago. I watched it through different eyes this time around. I was checking it from the perspective of what a good job Julian did with it considering it was chopped by the censors. I also followed it with the Filth & The Fury and both films stand up. The F&tF contains some of the deleted scenes from the Swindle movie. The original script by Roger Egbert has been posted up online. The original Russ Meyer version is bizarre.

The opening to the Swindle movie after Malcolm's introduction with the effigies being burnt and the Gordon Riots taking place is brilliant.

[Dr. Medulla]

I saw it at the cinema in London when it came out. Then later it was aired here on Channel 4 and I recorded it on VHS and I wore that tape out. I've had the official VHS release but now I've got it on DVD and watched it just a few days ago. I watched it through different eyes this time around. I was checking it from the perspective of what a good job Julian did with it considering it was chopped by the censors.

I wasn't aware of any of that. What's the scoop?

I also followed it with the Filth & The Fury and both films stand up. The F&tF contains some of the deleted scenes from the Swindle movie.

I'm good with F&F as the band's version of events. In a way, F&F reinforces Swindle's claim that there ain't no solid truth out there, it's all interpretation and manipulation. But as simple, easy to follow narrative, F&F is preferable.

The opening to the Swindle movie after Malcolm's introduction with the effigies being burnt and the Gordon Riots taking place is brilliant.

That's the kind of stuff that made no sense to me the first go-round. Get to the punk rock, you fuckers! But I really like the playful large historical canvas that McLaren wants to put the Sex Pistols on. This ain't just music, kid, this is part of the struggle of humankind.

I'd love to teach Swindle but without a basic understanding of the Sex Pistols narrative that it fucks around with, and the popular cultural theory that McLaren was working with, I don't think it makes sense. I'd have to do a couple weeks of foundation work just to get to the film. A shame, because it is a richer document than it's often treated as. I hate giving that sociopath his due, but that film is good.

[Marky Dread]

There would be some serious background learning to understanding Malcolm and then onto any cultural significance.

You need to understand all about the Gordon Riots then victorian England and those old attitudes. Then watch the film or read the book Oliver to fully understand how through the eyes of the film he was playing his version of Fagin. Then read up about King Mob and the Situationists from the 60s to early 70s that so influenced Jamie Reid, Malcolm and Robin Scott (who formed the pop group 'M' had the hit Pop Musik) with art and radicalism.

The movie was cut by the censors Malcolm was said to be mortified by how much they wanted removed and claimed he barely recognised it as the movie he made. How much was cut? Who knows? Julian for sure.

Richard Branson claims their were over 250 hours of material filmed. With several different directors used.

Lydon wanted Graham Chapman to make the movie but he had treated Malcolm really badly so Malcolm went for Russ Meyer who of course wanted to turn it into a tits and bum movie. Funding to Warner Bros was cut very quickly after a couple of days filming by 20th Centuty Fox as Princes Grace of Monaco was a share holder and wanted nothing to do with the Sex Pistols.

Of the filming Meyer did was to hunt down the deer on it's last legs that features on the rear cover of the original double vinyl album. Obviously in reference to the films original title of 'Who Killed Bambi?" This clip with a young girl coming out of a house and saying "Mummy mummy they've killed Bambi!" can been seen in the F&tF movie.

[Dr. Medulla]

There would be some serious background learning to understanding Malcolm and then onto any cultural significance.

You need to understand all about the Gordon Riots then victorian England and those old attitudes. Then watch the film or read the book Oliver to fully understand how through the eyes of the film he was playing his version of Fagin. Then read up about King Mob and the Situationists from the 60s to early 70s that so influenced Jamie Reid, Malcolm and Robin Scott (who formed the pop group 'M' had the hit Pop Musik) with art and radicalism.

Yup, exactly. It's just not a straight-forward movie about the Sex Pistols. Indeed, properly considered, it's not about the Sex Pistols at all. They're a part of the story, but not *the* story.

The movie was cut by the censors Malcolm was said to be mortified by how much they wanted removed and claimed he barely recognised it as the movie he made. How much was cut? Who knows? Julian for sure.

Very intriguing. Has the original shooting script ever been published?

Lydon wanted Graham Chapman to make the movie but he had treated Malcolm really badly so Malcolm went for Russ Meyer who of course wanted to turn it into a tits and bum movie. Funding to Warner Bros was cut very quickly after a couple of days filming by 20th Centuty Fox as Princes Grace of Monaco was a share holder and wanted nothing to do with the Sex Pistols.

Of the filming Meyer did was to hunt down the deer on it's last legs that features on the rear cover of the original double vinyl album. Obviously in reference to the films original title of 'Who Killed Bambi?" This clip with a young girl coming out of a house and saying "Mummy mummy they've killed Bambi!" can been seen in the F&tF movie.

I knew about Russ Meyer's brief involvement. There was stuff about Sid having an incestuous relationship with his mother or something? I have no idea how to justify that, not on taste grounds, but as part of sensible narrative. Dumb. Graham Chapman would have been very intriguing, and potentially bridged art terrorism with dark humour. Alas.