Sex Pistols

General music discussion.
Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 17319
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 7:30pm
Kory wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 7:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 2:42pm
Kory wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 2:14pm
WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jun 2022, 6:29pm


I'm watching with my partner - who doesn't know much about the band, so I'm clueing her in now and then, but mostly just watching as pure entertainment. It's not great, but not terrible. Some of the characters (especially John) veer too close to being caricatures and the dialogue can be clunky at times.
I think they do a decent job of portraying John as a guy who's definitely covering for personal insecurities without hammering you with it though. Still weird to me that the guy playing him doesn't have John's singing range.

The main thing that sticks out to me after 4 episodes is that they haven't gone at all into how influential they were even at the time, except for a short scene with the nascent Banshees. Where's the 100 Club punk festival? No sequence with the LFTH in Manchester, seriously? Hopefully they'll get to the Anarchy Tour in episode 5 but of course Sid wasn't in the band by that point.
No, their influence isn't a focus because it is, fundamentally, a story about Steve. The series is called Pistol, not Pistols. So the ramifications is on Steve, not the larger world around them. Not saying that's a good choice or a bad choice, but it is the choice in focus that they made.
I'd counter that if the focus is on Steve, the influence/importance of the band he started should also be addressed, because as Glen points out before he gets fired, it is a rebuttal to Steve's low sense of self-worth.
In terms of narrative, it loses focus if it tries to do both. It can't be a story of Steve *and* a story of everyone else. And, in terms of Steve's sense of self-worth, he doesn't emerge from this story in a good place. The Steve in 1979 or 1980 doesn't especially care about what the Pistols accomplished or inspired because he's fallen into heroin.
It doesn't need to be a story of everyone else, they could easily address it in one of the Matrix-camera montages they seem so fond of. I just don't think the writing is nearly strong enough to support the story of "some guy is in a band that has 20 fans."
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 8:01pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 7:30pm
Kory wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 7:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 2:42pm
Kory wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 2:14pm


I think they do a decent job of portraying John as a guy who's definitely covering for personal insecurities without hammering you with it though. Still weird to me that the guy playing him doesn't have John's singing range.

The main thing that sticks out to me after 4 episodes is that they haven't gone at all into how influential they were even at the time, except for a short scene with the nascent Banshees. Where's the 100 Club punk festival? No sequence with the LFTH in Manchester, seriously? Hopefully they'll get to the Anarchy Tour in episode 5 but of course Sid wasn't in the band by that point.
No, their influence isn't a focus because it is, fundamentally, a story about Steve. The series is called Pistol, not Pistols. So the ramifications is on Steve, not the larger world around them. Not saying that's a good choice or a bad choice, but it is the choice in focus that they made.
I'd counter that if the focus is on Steve, the influence/importance of the band he started should also be addressed, because as Glen points out before he gets fired, it is a rebuttal to Steve's low sense of self-worth.
In terms of narrative, it loses focus if it tries to do both. It can't be a story of Steve *and* a story of everyone else. And, in terms of Steve's sense of self-worth, he doesn't emerge from this story in a good place. The Steve in 1979 or 1980 doesn't especially care about what the Pistols accomplished or inspired because he's fallen into heroin.
It doesn't need to be a story of everyone else, they could easily address it in one of the Matrix-camera montages they seem so fond of. I just don't think the writing is nearly strong enough to support the story of "some guy is in a band that has 20 fans."
I don't disagree at all about the weakness of the script—the performances deserved so much better—but I don't think a montage would accomplish what you want. It would, I suspect, feel like something tacked on, to say, yeah, they influenced a whole lot of bands that general fans have never heard of. Do it properly or don't.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

BR16ADE_R055E
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 3784
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:25pm
Location: Winterland/Mabuhay Gardens

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by BR16ADE_R055E »

Sparky wrote:
30 Mar 2022, 8:53am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
30 Mar 2022, 6:24am
Alas, poor Marky, you have to buy the songs again: https://www.nme.com/news/music/sex-pist ... gs-3193926
I might have to pick up a copy for the colored vinyl.
I got the CD version. It's not too loud, so the mastering seems to be good (not brickwalled)...I actually have to crank it up a bit. Oddly and annoyingly, "No Fun" fades out.

In the booklet, Glen's name is spelled wrong. Really?

Also, I finished watching FX's Pistol. Overall, disappointing.

Spencey
Dirty Punk
Posts: 50
Joined: 16 Dec 2020, 3:34pm

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Spencey »

Watched FX Pistol last weekend with the missus and found myself getting annoyed at some of the embelishments and timeline issues. The best way get through it is to crack open the skull, lift out the brain and switch it off. I can't see too many passers by getting sucked into the show and making it beyond the first episode. Sex... why all the sex. The first couple of times, well ok, but after that it was a getting a bit like Sex In The City.

Went to see PiL last night in Belfast. Thoroughly enjoyed myself despite, admittedly, not ever really being a fan or giving them a fair go. I'll be digging deeper into them and have already watched the doco.

Back to the Pistols then... I've various vinyl pressings of NMTB and a vinyl re-issue of Spunk but no Sex Pistols on CD. Clearly I've been living under a rock as I see there has been a 35th and 40th anniversay editions of the album and that 76-77 box looks intriguing.

The 35th box is silly money these days but is it worth hunting out the 40th anniversary box (under £60???) and also getting the 76-77 box? Or perhaps just wait and it'll all get re-issued?

Cheers

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 17319
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Kory »

Spencey wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 3:27am
Went to see PiL last night in Belfast. Thoroughly enjoyed myself despite, admittedly, not ever really being a fan or giving them a fair go. I'll be digging deeper into them and have already watched the doco.
Man, I completely forgot that documentary even existed and haven't seen it yet, thanks for the reminder.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 5:04pm
Spencey wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 3:27am
Went to see PiL last night in Belfast. Thoroughly enjoyed myself despite, admittedly, not ever really being a fan or giving them a fair go. I'll be digging deeper into them and have already watched the doco.
Man, I completely forgot that documentary even existed and haven't seen it yet, thanks for the reminder.
Weirdly, I have it, watched it, and can remember not a whit about it.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 17319
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 5:17pm
Kory wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 5:04pm
Spencey wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 3:27am
Went to see PiL last night in Belfast. Thoroughly enjoyed myself despite, admittedly, not ever really being a fan or giving them a fair go. I'll be digging deeper into them and have already watched the doco.
Man, I completely forgot that documentary even existed and haven't seen it yet, thanks for the reminder.
Weirdly, I have it, watched it, and can remember not a whit about it.
I watched it that night and realized I have seen it before but I didn't notice until about halfway through. Why does this film not stick in the memory?
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 2:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 5:17pm
Kory wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 5:04pm
Spencey wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 3:27am
Went to see PiL last night in Belfast. Thoroughly enjoyed myself despite, admittedly, not ever really being a fan or giving them a fair go. I'll be digging deeper into them and have already watched the doco.
Man, I completely forgot that documentary even existed and haven't seen it yet, thanks for the reminder.
Weirdly, I have it, watched it, and can remember not a whit about it.
I watched it that night and realized I have seen it before but I didn't notice until about halfway through. Why does this film not stick in the memory?
Jesus, that's weird. I might have to load it up again to see if any memories shake loose.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Low Down Low
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4922
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Low Down Low »

Nothing very new or remarkable in this really. As ever, the stuff about Nora is memorable and moving, as the writer suggests, but what otherwise strikes me most about John in this is how profoundly unfunny he is. Frankly, he comes across as a terrible bore.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... -the-queen

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by matedog »

Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 4:55pm
Nothing very new or remarkable in this really. As ever, the stuff about Nora is memorable and moving, as the writer suggests, but what otherwise strikes me most about John in this is how profoundly unfunny he is. Frankly, he comes across as a terrible bore.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... -the-queen
Just remarkably out of touch, " “BLM and the woke and all of that – making problems that really were almost semi-non-existent”.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Low Down Low
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4922
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Low Down Low »

matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:02pm
Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 4:55pm
Nothing very new or remarkable in this really. As ever, the stuff about Nora is memorable and moving, as the writer suggests, but what otherwise strikes me most about John in this is how profoundly unfunny he is. Frankly, he comes across as a terrible bore.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... -the-queen
Just remarkably out of touch, " “BLM and the woke and all of that – making problems that really were almost semi-non-existent”.
The thing is he talks earlier on about having empathy for people but, his wife apart, the only person I see him showing empathy towards is the fucking queen of all people! And bookending a query about trans rights with a story of how you once worried you were growing tits, honestly I don't even know what to say about that!

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:09pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:02pm
Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 4:55pm
Nothing very new or remarkable in this really. As ever, the stuff about Nora is memorable and moving, as the writer suggests, but what otherwise strikes me most about John in this is how profoundly unfunny he is. Frankly, he comes across as a terrible bore.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... -the-queen
Just remarkably out of touch, " “BLM and the woke and all of that – making problems that really were almost semi-non-existent”.
The thing is he talks earlier on about having empathy for people but, his wife apart, the only person I see him showing empathy towards is the fucking queen of all people! And bookending a query about trans rights with a story of how you once worried you were growing tits, honestly I don't even know what to say about that!
If I'm being charitable—that his, um, provocative statements are just meant to outrage and nothing else—he's stuck as a kneejerk contrarian, lacking any true commitment to principles beyond self-interest or -amusement. That's the best case scenario. Otherwise he really is slipping into that ugly cultural fascism. Enjoy sharing a fanbase with Kid Rock and Ted Nugent, Johnny.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 58887
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:22pm
Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:09pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:02pm
Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 4:55pm
Nothing very new or remarkable in this really. As ever, the stuff about Nora is memorable and moving, as the writer suggests, but what otherwise strikes me most about John in this is how profoundly unfunny he is. Frankly, he comes across as a terrible bore.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... -the-queen
Just remarkably out of touch, " “BLM and the woke and all of that – making problems that really were almost semi-non-existent”.
The thing is he talks earlier on about having empathy for people but, his wife apart, the only person I see him showing empathy towards is the fucking queen of all people! And bookending a query about trans rights with a story of how you once worried you were growing tits, honestly I don't even know what to say about that!
If I'm being charitable—that his, um, provocative statements are just meant to outrage and nothing else—he's stuck as a kneejerk contrarian, lacking any true commitment to principles beyond self-interest or -amusement. That's the best case scenario. Otherwise he really is slipping into that ugly cultural fascism. Enjoy sharing a fanbase with Kid Rock and Ted Nugent, Johnny.
When was the last time he actually said anything you agreed with? I'd have to go back 30 years plus.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115994
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:22pm
Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:09pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:02pm
Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 4:55pm
Nothing very new or remarkable in this really. As ever, the stuff about Nora is memorable and moving, as the writer suggests, but what otherwise strikes me most about John in this is how profoundly unfunny he is. Frankly, he comes across as a terrible bore.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... -the-queen
Just remarkably out of touch, " “BLM and the woke and all of that – making problems that really were almost semi-non-existent”.
The thing is he talks earlier on about having empathy for people but, his wife apart, the only person I see him showing empathy towards is the fucking queen of all people! And bookending a query about trans rights with a story of how you once worried you were growing tits, honestly I don't even know what to say about that!
If I'm being charitable—that his, um, provocative statements are just meant to outrage and nothing else—he's stuck as a kneejerk contrarian, lacking any true commitment to principles beyond self-interest or -amusement. That's the best case scenario. Otherwise he really is slipping into that ugly cultural fascism. Enjoy sharing a fanbase with Kid Rock and Ted Nugent, Johnny.
When was the last time he actually said anything you agreed with? I'd have to go back 30 years plus.
In terms of politics, I couldn't pinpoint anything in particular, but, yeah, I'll bet it does go back to the 80s. Until the five or six years, I was able to accept that he was more just conservative than me—e.g., his admiration for Bush Jr—but he's drifted, sincerely or not, into really ugly territory. You don't claim to be empathetic and then in the next breath disparage transgender people.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 58887
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:49pm
Marky Dread wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:22pm
Low Down Low wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:09pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 5:02pm


Just remarkably out of touch, " “BLM and the woke and all of that – making problems that really were almost semi-non-existent”.
The thing is he talks earlier on about having empathy for people but, his wife apart, the only person I see him showing empathy towards is the fucking queen of all people! And bookending a query about trans rights with a story of how you once worried you were growing tits, honestly I don't even know what to say about that!
If I'm being charitable—that his, um, provocative statements are just meant to outrage and nothing else—he's stuck as a kneejerk contrarian, lacking any true commitment to principles beyond self-interest or -amusement. That's the best case scenario. Otherwise he really is slipping into that ugly cultural fascism. Enjoy sharing a fanbase with Kid Rock and Ted Nugent, Johnny.
When was the last time he actually said anything you agreed with? I'd have to go back 30 years plus.
In terms of politics, I couldn't pinpoint anything in particular, but, yeah, I'll bet it does go back to the 80s. Until the five or six years, I was able to accept that he was more just conservative than me—e.g., his admiration for Bush Jr—but he's drifted, sincerely or not, into really ugly territory. You don't claim to be empathetic and then in the next breath disparage transgender people.
I don't have to like his current political mindset and care less about hearing him constantly moan and groan. But insincerity is my least favourable trait in a person. But then I wonder if he was ever genuinely sincere or just playing his role and taking the piss.

It's like he enjoys being an outsider and is happy to be seen as some kind of agent provocateur but in reality he is just another old bore. Really tedious old whinge bag.

His John Lydon web page was called "Army of One" if I remember correctly. Which shows his mindset. It's me against the world. Well John the world gave up listening long ago. Make some more music play some gigs then shut up.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Post Reply