Sex Pistols

[Marky Dread]

By his own admission, Jonesy actually has some affection for John, when he is being John. He has zero time for him when he's being Johnny.

That might just be the problem as John always hated being called Johnny. Whereas in later years he slipped in and out of character when it suited his mood. Definitely his downfall and I'm with Steve all the way here.

The weird thing is adopting the public persona in private. Like, sure, the camera is on, it's time for John Lydon to become Johnny Rotten. No one expects that when it was just him and the missuz and grandkids at home he was Johnny, so why do it with Steve or Paul or Glen?

Who said he does? Steve probably tolerates off camera John more than on camera Johnny. The proof is Jonesy's Jukebox where the pair are relaxed and reminiscing about old haunts and former glories.

But people simply over look the fact that none of these guys except Paul and Steve were ever friends in the first place. John didn't hang out with Steve and Paul unless it was band related interviews etc and on most of those occasions they were interviewed separately.

That's why John got Sid in the band because he was a mate. They all just tolerated each other for a period just for the sake of the band.

There's no Sex Pistols gang mentality. John said they would bitterly argue right from day one.

So none of the actions are really surprising after the band split. Remember Steve and Paul sided with Malcolm right up to when they realised John was right about the groups monies and the court case. Neither of them stood up for Glen when he quit the band. There's never been any love lost between any of them. The Sex Pistol were a rock n roll band not a bunch of mates who got together.

[Dr. Medulla]

By his own admission, Jonesy actually has some affection for John, when he is being John. He has zero time for him when he's being Johnny.

That might just be the problem as John always hated being called Johnny. Whereas in later years he slipped in and out of character when it suited his mood. Definitely his downfall and I'm with Steve all the way here.

The weird thing is adopting the public persona in private. Like, sure, the camera is on, it's time for John Lydon to become Johnny Rotten. No one expects that when it was just him and the missuz and grandkids at home he was Johnny, so why do it with Steve or Paul or Glen?

Who said he does? Steve probably tolerates off camera John more than on camera Johnny. The proof is Jonesy's Jukebox where the pair are relaxed and reminiscing about old haunts and former glories.

But people simply over look the fact that none of these guys except Paul and Steve were ever friends in the first place. John didn't hang out with Steve and Paul unless it was band related interviews etc and on most of those occasions they were interviewed separately.

That's why John got Sid in the band because he was a mate. They all just tolerated each other for a period just for the sake of the band.

There's no Sex Pistols gang mentality. John said they would bitterly argue right from day one.

So none of the actions are really surprising after the band split. Remember Steve and Paul sided with Malcolm right up to when they realised John was right about the groups monies and the court case. Neither of them stood up for Glen when he quit the band. There's never been any love lost between any of them. The Sex Pistol were a rock n roll band not a bunch of mates who got together.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're misunderstanding me. There's nothing wrong with arguing within a band. Nor is there an expectation of being buddy-buddy. Glen isn't buddies with Steve or Paul, but they can still travel on the same bus. Lydon seemingly can't do so with any of them. He goes into Johnny Rotten mode. I fail to understand why he has to be his public self in private with them. Not being pals, just being tolerable with each other.

[Marky Dread]

By his own admission, Jonesy actually has some affection for John, when he is being John. He has zero time for him when he's being Johnny.

That might just be the problem as John always hated being called Johnny. Whereas in later years he slipped in and out of character when it suited his mood. Definitely his downfall and I'm with Steve all the way here.

The weird thing is adopting the public persona in private. Like, sure, the camera is on, it's time for John Lydon to become Johnny Rotten. No one expects that when it was just him and the missuz and grandkids at home he was Johnny, so why do it with Steve or Paul or Glen?

Who said he does? Steve probably tolerates off camera John more than on camera Johnny. The proof is Jonesy's Jukebox where the pair are relaxed and reminiscing about old haunts and former glories.

But people simply over look the fact that none of these guys except Paul and Steve were ever friends in the first place. John didn't hang out with Steve and Paul unless it was band related interviews etc and on most of those occasions they were interviewed separately.

That's why John got Sid in the band because he was a mate. They all just tolerated each other for a period just for the sake of the band.

There's no Sex Pistols gang mentality. John said they would bitterly argue right from day one.

So none of the actions are really surprising after the band split. Remember Steve and Paul sided with Malcolm right up to when they realised John was right about the groups monies and the court case. Neither of them stood up for Glen when he quit the band. There's never been any love lost between any of them. The Sex Pistol were a rock n roll band not a bunch of mates who got together.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're misunderstanding me. There's nothing wrong with arguing within a band. Nor is there an expectation of being buddy-buddy. Glen isn't buddies with Steve or Paul, but they can still travel on the same bus. Lydon seemingly can't do so with any of them. He goes into Johnny Rotten mode. I fail to understand why he has to be his public self in private with them. Not being pals, just being tolerable with each other.

They don't really like each other. Glen has no problem with Steve and Paul. But John has problems with all three to a degree. Would you want to be on a bus with John? There's no mention that John took a separate bus with his friends like John Rambo Stevens etc because he wanted to be surrounded with those he trusts. That's got nothing to do with any persona. Why should he have to travel with the others. I expect that would've killed the tour stone dead from the off.

[Dr. Medulla]

That might just be the problem as John always hated being called Johnny. Whereas in later years he slipped in and out of character when it suited his mood. Definitely his downfall and I'm with Steve all the way here.

The weird thing is adopting the public persona in private. Like, sure, the camera is on, it's time for John Lydon to become Johnny Rotten. No one expects that when it was just him and the missuz and grandkids at home he was Johnny, so why do it with Steve or Paul or Glen?

Who said he does? Steve probably tolerates off camera John more than on camera Johnny. The proof is Jonesy's Jukebox where the pair are relaxed and reminiscing about old haunts and former glories.

But people simply over look the fact that none of these guys except Paul and Steve were ever friends in the first place. John didn't hang out with Steve and Paul unless it was band related interviews etc and on most of those occasions they were interviewed separately.

That's why John got Sid in the band because he was a mate. They all just tolerated each other for a period just for the sake of the band.

There's no Sex Pistols gang mentality. John said they would bitterly argue right from day one.

So none of the actions are really surprising after the band split. Remember Steve and Paul sided with Malcolm right up to when they realised John was right about the groups monies and the court case. Neither of them stood up for Glen when he quit the band. There's never been any love lost between any of them. The Sex Pistol were a rock n roll band not a bunch of mates who got together.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're misunderstanding me. There's nothing wrong with arguing within a band. Nor is there an expectation of being buddy-buddy. Glen isn't buddies with Steve or Paul, but they can still travel on the same bus. Lydon seemingly can't do so with any of them. He goes into Johnny Rotten mode. I fail to understand why he has to be his public self in private with them. Not being pals, just being tolerable with each other.

They don't really like each other. Glen has no problem with Steve and Paul. But John has problems with all three to a degree. Would you want to be on a bus with John? There's no mention that John took a separate bus with his friends like John Rambo Stevens etc because he wanted to be surrounded with those he trusts. That's got nothing to do with any persona. Why should he have to travel with the others. I expect that would've killed the tour stone dead from the off.

But that's kind of my point. With his buddies, he isn't Johnny Rotten, that's not him in private with people he likes. But with the other Sex Pistols, he doesn't turn it off. He's, by most accounts, an obnoxious prick with them in the way he would be with a journalist.

[Marky Dread]

The weird thing is adopting the public persona in private. Like, sure, the camera is on, it's time for John Lydon to become Johnny Rotten. No one expects that when it was just him and the missuz and grandkids at home he was Johnny, so why do it with Steve or Paul or Glen?

Who said he does? Steve probably tolerates off camera John more than on camera Johnny. The proof is Jonesy's Jukebox where the pair are relaxed and reminiscing about old haunts and former glories.

But people simply over look the fact that none of these guys except Paul and Steve were ever friends in the first place. John didn't hang out with Steve and Paul unless it was band related interviews etc and on most of those occasions they were interviewed separately.

That's why John got Sid in the band because he was a mate. They all just tolerated each other for a period just for the sake of the band.

There's no Sex Pistols gang mentality. John said they would bitterly argue right from day one.

So none of the actions are really surprising after the band split. Remember Steve and Paul sided with Malcolm right up to when they realised John was right about the groups monies and the court case. Neither of them stood up for Glen when he quit the band. There's never been any love lost between any of them. The Sex Pistol were a rock n roll band not a bunch of mates who got together.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're misunderstanding me. There's nothing wrong with arguing within a band. Nor is there an expectation of being buddy-buddy. Glen isn't buddies with Steve or Paul, but they can still travel on the same bus. Lydon seemingly can't do so with any of them. He goes into Johnny Rotten mode. I fail to understand why he has to be his public self in private with them. Not being pals, just being tolerable with each other.

They don't really like each other. Glen has no problem with Steve and Paul. But John has problems with all three to a degree. Would you want to be on a bus with John? There's no mention that John took a separate bus with his friends like John Rambo Stevens etc because he wanted to be surrounded with those he trusts. That's got nothing to do with any persona. Why should he have to travel with the others. I expect that would've killed the tour stone dead from the off.

But that's kind of my point. With his buddies, he isn't Johnny Rotten, that's not him in private with people he likes. But with the other Sex Pistols, he doesn't turn it off. He's, by most accounts, an obnoxious prick with them in the way he would be with a journalist.

Right exactly so why bother to moan about John when you already know what you are going to get. They should be bloody relieved he takes a separate bus.

[Dr. Medulla]

Who said he does? Steve probably tolerates off camera John more than on camera Johnny. The proof is Jonesy's Jukebox where the pair are relaxed and reminiscing about old haunts and former glories.

But people simply over look the fact that none of these guys except Paul and Steve were ever friends in the first place. John didn't hang out with Steve and Paul unless it was band related interviews etc and on most of those occasions they were interviewed separately.

That's why John got Sid in the band because he was a mate. They all just tolerated each other for a period just for the sake of the band.

There's no Sex Pistols gang mentality. John said they would bitterly argue right from day one.

So none of the actions are really surprising after the band split. Remember Steve and Paul sided with Malcolm right up to when they realised John was right about the groups monies and the court case. Neither of them stood up for Glen when he quit the band. There's never been any love lost between any of them. The Sex Pistol were a rock n roll band not a bunch of mates who got together.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're misunderstanding me. There's nothing wrong with arguing within a band. Nor is there an expectation of being buddy-buddy. Glen isn't buddies with Steve or Paul, but they can still travel on the same bus. Lydon seemingly can't do so with any of them. He goes into Johnny Rotten mode. I fail to understand why he has to be his public self in private with them. Not being pals, just being tolerable with each other.

They don't really like each other. Glen has no problem with Steve and Paul. But John has problems with all three to a degree. Would you want to be on a bus with John? There's no mention that John took a separate bus with his friends like John Rambo Stevens etc because he wanted to be surrounded with those he trusts. That's got nothing to do with any persona. Why should he have to travel with the others. I expect that would've killed the tour stone dead from the off.

But that's kind of my point. With his buddies, he isn't Johnny Rotten, that's not him in private with people he likes. But with the other Sex Pistols, he doesn't turn it off. He's, by most accounts, an obnoxious prick with them in the way he would be with a journalist.

Right exactly so why bother to moan about John when you already know what you are going to get. They should be bloody relieved he takes a separate bus.

Of course, but I'm not criticizing the others. They're being sensible. I'm asking why Lydon needs to be a spoiled brat around them. In Glen's book, he mentions meeting Ray Davies backstage during one of their reunion tours, and Ray telling him to just acknowledge that he was the musical force in the band, the guy who brought the songs to the band (Glen was saying it was a collective effort). Glen was trying to change the topic because he feared Lydon could overhear their conversation and it would make things unworkable in the immediate future. Just this permanent black cloud prima donna ready to go off.

[Marky Dread]

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're misunderstanding me. There's nothing wrong with arguing within a band. Nor is there an expectation of being buddy-buddy. Glen isn't buddies with Steve or Paul, but they can still travel on the same bus. Lydon seemingly can't do so with any of them. He goes into Johnny Rotten mode. I fail to understand why he has to be his public self in private with them. Not being pals, just being tolerable with each other.

They don't really like each other. Glen has no problem with Steve and Paul. But John has problems with all three to a degree. Would you want to be on a bus with John? There's no mention that John took a separate bus with his friends like John Rambo Stevens etc because he wanted to be surrounded with those he trusts. That's got nothing to do with any persona. Why should he have to travel with the others. I expect that would've killed the tour stone dead from the off.

But that's kind of my point. With his buddies, he isn't Johnny Rotten, that's not him in private with people he likes. But with the other Sex Pistols, he doesn't turn it off. He's, by most accounts, an obnoxious prick with them in the way he would be with a journalist.

Right exactly so why bother to moan about John when you already know what you are going to get. They should be bloody relieved he takes a separate bus.

Of course, but I'm not criticizing the others. They're being sensible. I'm asking why Lydon needs to be a spoiled brat around them. In Glen's book, he mentions meeting Ray Davies backstage during one of their reunion tours, and Ray telling him to just acknowledge that he was the musical force in the band, the guy who brought the songs to the band (Glen was saying it was a collective effort). Glen was trying to change the topic because he feared Lydon could overhear their conversation and it would make things unworkable in the immediate future. Just this permanent black cloud prima donna ready to go off.

I've read the book. It's a decent read. Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

[Dr. Medulla]

Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

[Marky Dread]

Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

Being chosen for the role as singer was really down to the one guy in the operation he ended up hating the most, Malcolm. The others had already made their feelings clear by not even bothering to show up to the first rehearsal/meeting and leaving John stranded in a dodgy part of town. The whole thing about John being the vocalist in a band whose three musicians were Rod Stewart and Steve Marriott fans is as bizarre as it gets and without Malcolm seeing something in John there's no way they form a band with him and no way he ever gets a position in a band with anyone. On top of that the John Vivienne had mentioned to Malcolm was actually John Beverley (Sid) not even Lydon at all. What a piece of luck for him.

[Dr. Medulla]

Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

Being chosen for the role as singer was really down to the one guy in the operation he ended up hating the most, Malcolm. The others had already made their feelings clear by not even bothering to show up to the first rehearsal/meeting and leaving John stranded in a dodgy part of town. The whole thing about John being the vocalist in a band whose three musicians were Rod Stewart and Steve Marriott fans is as bizarre as it gets and without Malcolm seeing something in John there's no way they form a band with him and no way he ever gets a position in a band with anyone. On top of that the John Vivienne had mentioned to Malcolm was actually John Beverley (Sid) not even Lydon at all. What a piece of luck for him.

All success stories involve luck and historical context. It requires the right people to take advantage of the circumstances, but they're never above circumstance.

[Marky Dread]

Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

Being chosen for the role as singer was really down to the one guy in the operation he ended up hating the most, Malcolm. The others had already made their feelings clear by not even bothering to show up to the first rehearsal/meeting and leaving John stranded in a dodgy part of town. The whole thing about John being the vocalist in a band whose three musicians were Rod Stewart and Steve Marriott fans is as bizarre as it gets and without Malcolm seeing something in John there's no way they form a band with him and no way he ever gets a position in a band with anyone. On top of that the John Vivienne had mentioned to Malcolm was actually John Beverley (Sid) not even Lydon at all. What a piece of luck for him.

All success stories involve luck and historical context. It requires the right people to take advantage of the circumstances, but they're never above circumstance.

The thing here is the musical climate of those times. Without the luck of Malcolm's gift for talking the situation up and blaging the way he did and getting that level of notoriety for EMI to sign this band. Then the luck of Queen pulling out of the Today show at the last minute and the luck that the Pistols were genuine working class yobs with foul mouths pushing that notoriety even further at prime time television was incredibly fortunate.

[Dr. Medulla]

Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

Being chosen for the role as singer was really down to the one guy in the operation he ended up hating the most, Malcolm. The others had already made their feelings clear by not even bothering to show up to the first rehearsal/meeting and leaving John stranded in a dodgy part of town. The whole thing about John being the vocalist in a band whose three musicians were Rod Stewart and Steve Marriott fans is as bizarre as it gets and without Malcolm seeing something in John there's no way they form a band with him and no way he ever gets a position in a band with anyone. On top of that the John Vivienne had mentioned to Malcolm was actually John Beverley (Sid) not even Lydon at all. What a piece of luck for him.

All success stories involve luck and historical context. It requires the right people to take advantage of the circumstances, but they're never above circumstance.

The thing here is the musical climate of those times. Without the luck of Malcolm's gift for talking the situation up and blaging the way he did and getting that level of notoriety for EMI to sign this band. Then the luck of Queen pulling out of the Today show at the last minute and the luck that the Pistols were genuine working class yobs with foul mouths pushing that notoriety even further at prime time television was incredibly fortunate.

Or Grundy being someone who bumblefucked his way thru the encounter. A more neutral interviewer doesn't encourage Steve to let loose.

[Marky Dread]

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

Being chosen for the role as singer was really down to the one guy in the operation he ended up hating the most, Malcolm. The others had already made their feelings clear by not even bothering to show up to the first rehearsal/meeting and leaving John stranded in a dodgy part of town. The whole thing about John being the vocalist in a band whose three musicians were Rod Stewart and Steve Marriott fans is as bizarre as it gets and without Malcolm seeing something in John there's no way they form a band with him and no way he ever gets a position in a band with anyone. On top of that the John Vivienne had mentioned to Malcolm was actually John Beverley (Sid) not even Lydon at all. What a piece of luck for him.

All success stories involve luck and historical context. It requires the right people to take advantage of the circumstances, but they're never above circumstance.

The thing here is the musical climate of those times. Without the luck of Malcolm's gift for talking the situation up and blaging the way he did and getting that level of notoriety for EMI to sign this band. Then the luck of Queen pulling out of the Today show at the last minute and the luck that the Pistols were genuine working class yobs with foul mouths pushing that notoriety even further at prime time television was incredibly fortunate.

Or Grundy being someone who bumblefucked his way thru the encounter. A more neutral interviewer doesn't encourage Steve to let loose.

It's true because if you see the band on the BBC Nationwide show playing Anarchy in the U.K. and then being interviewed they have very different views compared to the mainstream of the day but there is no swearing.

[Kory]

Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

Being chosen for the role as singer was really down to the one guy in the operation he ended up hating the most, Malcolm. The others had already made their feelings clear by not even bothering to show up to the first rehearsal/meeting and leaving John stranded in a dodgy part of town. The whole thing about John being the vocalist in a band whose three musicians were Rod Stewart and Steve Marriott fans is as bizarre as it gets and without Malcolm seeing something in John there's no way they form a band with him and no way he ever gets a position in a band with anyone. On top of that the John Vivienne had mentioned to Malcolm was actually John Beverley (Sid) not even Lydon at all. What a piece of luck for him.

Hey now, let's not forget the contribution of our very own beloved Bernie to this circumstance.

[Marky Dread]

Why is John being John around his ex band members?

I understand why Glen would not want to upset John (the apple cart) because then that dents any future reunions and that's a pay packet for Glen.

Only John knows why he acts the way he does around them. But my opinion or thoughts on this matter is simply John thinks he is superior to them and without him there can be no Sex Pistols. Of course he is right he is the voice and the force of their performance comes from his vocals/lyrics. It's a completey unfair attitude but in reality John could've gone out on the road with three other musicians playing those songs easily. He's never done that and never relied on his Pistols legacy. Sure he's played about 5 Pistols songs with PiL over the years but never a reliance on them.

It's obvious he feels he made them and not the other way around. Truth is they needed each other and John was incredibly fortunate to be in the band. But they are like chalk and cheese with their personalities. Steve, Paul and Glen would've always ended up as a solid rock n roll band but without John there's no way they would've achieved the same level of fame or notoriety. This I believe is a weapon for John to use against them. He has said many times that Steve and Paul were cowards siding with Malcolm and going to Brazil with Biggs etc. But then without the Sex Pistols John would never had formed PiL.

Imagine if PiL had formed in 1976 there's simply no way they would had the same kind of impact the Sex Pistols did. They would've ended up nothing more than a footnote. Fans were desperate to hear new material after the Pistols split so John was already in a win/win situation regardless of the court case.

I basically agree with this. Without John, the others may have developed as a competent band, but just as likely would have gone nowhere and fallen apart. But without ever meeting them, John may have just become some bitter boho weirdo. No reason to think he was destined to be in a band or gain any kind of public profile.

Being chosen for the role as singer was really down to the one guy in the operation he ended up hating the most, Malcolm. The others had already made their feelings clear by not even bothering to show up to the first rehearsal/meeting and leaving John stranded in a dodgy part of town. The whole thing about John being the vocalist in a band whose three musicians were Rod Stewart and Steve Marriott fans is as bizarre as it gets and without Malcolm seeing something in John there's no way they form a band with him and no way he ever gets a position in a band with anyone. On top of that the John Vivienne had mentioned to Malcolm was actually John Beverley (Sid) not even Lydon at all. What a piece of luck for him.

Hey now, let's not forget the contribution of our very own beloved Bernie to this circumstance.

Apart from spotting John for looking different in the Kings Road, Chelsea what exactly did Bernie do? Malcolm had been in the US half assed attempting to manage the Dolls. It was still Malcolm who gave John the audition in Sex. How the hell he became singer is madness really. It was only because Malcolm saw something in him the others were non plus. Imagine Lydon turning up and singing like a donkey when you're really looking for the next Steve Marriott.