Sex Pistols

General music discussion.
Silent Majority
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Silent Majority »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 10:04am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 9:37am
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 9:33am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:26am
With no touring income available, I expect to see more squabbling like this from other bands very shortly. The shitty relationship between the Pistols mean that they would be the first to get into this.
Well Jones has his radio show. Cook and Matlock both play live regularly pre pandemic and have released albums. John has PiL and all his book stuff he does. None of them are particularly poor.
Not compared to your or me, but you get used to the money coming in - Cook, Lydon, and Matlock will have been denied that stream since this time last year, hence the biting at eachother.
Net worth as at 2021

John Lydon : $15 Million
Steve Jones : $8 Million
Paul Cook : $8 Million
Glen Matlock : $3.5 million

None of these guys will be sleeping rough and begging for the price of a cup of tea any day soon. ;)
Yeah. I'm just saying that rich people love money.
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It's our profit, it's his loss


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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 10:35am
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 10:04am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 9:37am
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 9:33am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:26am
With no touring income available, I expect to see more squabbling like this from other bands very shortly. The shitty relationship between the Pistols mean that they would be the first to get into this.
Well Jones has his radio show. Cook and Matlock both play live regularly pre pandemic and have released albums. John has PiL and all his book stuff he does. None of them are particularly poor.
Not compared to your or me, but you get used to the money coming in - Cook, Lydon, and Matlock will have been denied that stream since this time last year, hence the biting at eachother.
Net worth as at 2021

John Lydon : $15 Million
Steve Jones : $8 Million
Paul Cook : $8 Million
Glen Matlock : $3.5 million

None of these guys will be sleeping rough and begging for the price of a cup of tea any day soon. ;)
Yeah. I'm just saying that rich people love money.
At some magical point, money becomes not a way of taking care of our material needs but a measure of status. And once money transforms into that, there ain't no amount that can be enough.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Marky Dread
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 10:45am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 10:35am
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 10:04am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 9:37am
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 9:33am


Well Jones has his radio show. Cook and Matlock both play live regularly pre pandemic and have released albums. John has PiL and all his book stuff he does. None of them are particularly poor.
Not compared to your or me, but you get used to the money coming in - Cook, Lydon, and Matlock will have been denied that stream since this time last year, hence the biting at eachother.
Net worth as at 2021

John Lydon : $15 Million
Steve Jones : $8 Million
Paul Cook : $8 Million
Glen Matlock : $3.5 million

None of these guys will be sleeping rough and begging for the price of a cup of tea any day soon. ;)
Yeah. I'm just saying that rich people love money.
At some magical point, money becomes not a way of taking care of our material needs but a measure of status. And once money transforms into that, there ain't no amount that can be enough.
I hear what you're saying. But I still want to believe that it comes down to a state of mind over a state of wealth.

I know the need for greed and a lifestyle that requires a certain amount of wealth to live it. But money does not make us rich just more needy.
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Flex
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Flex »

they can settle all this by giving their royalties to me, Flex.
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Marky Dread »

Flex wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 12:22pm
they can settle all this by giving their royalties to me, Flex.
I agree they should give all you their royalties. And the master tape to "Who Killed Bambi?".
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Flex »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 5:56pm
Flex wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 12:22pm
they can settle all this by giving their royalties to me, Flex.
I agree they should give all you their royalties. And the master tape to "Who Killed Bambi?".
No lie, that track fascinated me as a young teen. Probably felt a bit like post punk does for a lot of folks here: expanded the idea of what punk rock can mean.
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Marky Dread
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Marky Dread »

Flex wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 6:02pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 5:56pm
Flex wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 12:22pm
they can settle all this by giving their royalties to me, Flex.
I agree they should give all you their royalties. And the master tape to "Who Killed Bambi?".
No lie, that track fascinated me as a young teen. Probably felt a bit like post punk does for a lot of folks here: expanded the idea of what punk rock can mean.
The song is fun and was mostly written by Vivienne Westwood and Ed Tudor-Pole. But it is a complete rip-off from an old nursery rhyme called "One Man Went to Mow".

I understand totally what you are saying regards what punk could mean. For better or for worse it pushes the boundaries and expands on the sounds of punk. That punk being an attitude not a musical style.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 6:28pm
it pushes the boundaries and expands on the sounds of punk. That punk being an attitude not a musical style.
Isn't that the essence of post-punk? That is, it embraces punk's rejection of pop conventionality and of strict technique, but sets aside that kind of rock n roll purity. To me, punk as musical style is a dead end. Yes, some fantastic records along the way—absolutely super-amazing records that I'll always love—but very quickly as a form, on a larger scale, it shows itself to be a closed space, especially once hardcore decided to push towards a harder, faster, simpler purism. Which plenty of hardcore acts concluded themselves after a few years. Fine as a stage for exploration, but as an end point unto itself? Meh.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Marky Dread
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:04pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 6:28pm
it pushes the boundaries and expands on the sounds of punk. That punk being an attitude not a musical style.
Isn't that the essence of post-punk? That is, it embraces punk's rejection of pop conventionality and of strict technique, but sets aside that kind of rock n roll purity. To me, punk as musical style is a dead end. Yes, some fantastic records along the way—absolutely super-amazing records that I'll always love—but very quickly as a form, on a larger scale, it shows itself to be a closed space, especially once hardcore decided to push towards a harder, faster, simpler purism. Which plenty of hardcore acts concluded themselves after a few years. Fine as a stage for exploration, but as an end point unto itself? Meh.
Yeah I agree with the straight jacket and various corners that punk had forced itself into. Many bands were just content with going 1-2-3-4 blam! But there were always bands that wanted to stretch out musically. Even before the post-punk term was coined there were people who realised that it was an attitude.

Post punk is just another narrow minded term to try to label a sound. When you can't label an attitude as easily. I know you and I have had similar discussions about this over the years.

To me an artist like Eno can have some music that could easily be called post punk but that would simply be lazy with an artist who is unafraid of style/sound and experimentation.
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Kory
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Kory »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:04pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 6:28pm
it pushes the boundaries and expands on the sounds of punk. That punk being an attitude not a musical style.
Isn't that the essence of post-punk? That is, it embraces punk's rejection of pop conventionality and of strict technique, but sets aside that kind of rock n roll purity. To me, punk as musical style is a dead end. Yes, some fantastic records along the way—absolutely super-amazing records that I'll always love—but very quickly as a form, on a larger scale, it shows itself to be a closed space, especially once hardcore decided to push towards a harder, faster, simpler purism. Which plenty of hardcore acts concluded themselves after a few years. Fine as a stage for exploration, but as an end point unto itself? Meh.
Yeah I agree with the straight jacket and various corners that punk had forced itself into. Many bands were just content with going 1-2-3-4 blam! But there were always bands that wanted to stretch out musically. Even before the post-punk term was coined there were people who realised that it was an attitude.

Post punk is just another narrow minded term to try to label a sound. When you can't label an attitude as easily. I know you and I have had similar discussions about this over the years.

To me an artist like Eno can have some music that could easily be called post punk but that would simply be lazy with an artist who is unafraid of style/sound and experimentation.
It seems as though most subgenre names are ultimately pretty lazy catch-alls that are necessary for journalists to have a "scene" to get kids excited about, and for record stores to be able to organize their stock. Just look at shoegaze! I myself just consider post-punk bands to be the ones that you and Doc mention—the ones who realized almost right off the bat that the ramalama style could only go so far, and that the truly punk thing to do is to subvert expectations or follow your own muse. So while Eno's (since you mention him as a gray-area type) sound is VERY obviously an influence on those bands, I wouldn't feel comfortable if somebody said he was post-punk, as it's more of a chronological/antecedent-based designation to me, if that makes sense. Some of the NY bands are a little more gray as well—you might be able to call them post-punk, but they weren't really reacting to/moving on from an established punk movement, they just started with that mindset already, as you noted about Eno.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:10pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:04pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 6:28pm
it pushes the boundaries and expands on the sounds of punk. That punk being an attitude not a musical style.
Isn't that the essence of post-punk? That is, it embraces punk's rejection of pop conventionality and of strict technique, but sets aside that kind of rock n roll purity. To me, punk as musical style is a dead end. Yes, some fantastic records along the way—absolutely super-amazing records that I'll always love—but very quickly as a form, on a larger scale, it shows itself to be a closed space, especially once hardcore decided to push towards a harder, faster, simpler purism. Which plenty of hardcore acts concluded themselves after a few years. Fine as a stage for exploration, but as an end point unto itself? Meh.
Yeah I agree with the straight jacket and various corners that punk had forced itself into. Many bands were just content with going 1-2-3-4 blam! But there were always bands that wanted to stretch out musically. Even before the post-punk term was coined there were people who realised that it was an attitude.

Post punk is just another narrow minded term to try to label a sound. When you can't label an attitude as easily. I know you and I have had similar discussions about this over the years.

To me an artist like Eno can have some music that could easily be called post punk but that would simply be lazy with an artist who is unafraid of style/sound and experimentation.
It seems as though most subgenre names are ultimately pretty lazy catch-alls that are necessary for journalists to have a "scene" to get kids excited about, and for record stores to be able to organize their stock. Just look at shoegaze! I myself just consider post-punk bands to be the ones that you and Doc mention—the ones who realized almost right off the bat that the ramalama style could only go so far, and that the truly punk thing to do is to subvert expectations or follow your own muse. So while Eno's (since you mention him as a gray-area type) sound is VERY obviously an influence on those bands, I wouldn't feel comfortable if somebody said he was post-punk, as it's more of a chronological/antecedent-based designation to me, if that makes sense. Some of the NY bands are a little more gray as well—you might be able to call them post-punk, but they weren't really reacting to/moving on from an established punk movement, they just started with that mindset already, as you noted about Eno.
There's also the suggestion that genres are tools of the record companies (you like this band that sounds like this, then you'll also like that band that also sounds like this). Less cynically, when there is so much music to sift thru, as much as we'd like to get rid of labels, we need them as filters to help us in conversation and to organize how we evaluate things. Labels aren't a bad thing as long as they're a tool used by us, rather than a tool that controls us.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Kory
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:18pm
Kory wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:10pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:04pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 6:28pm
it pushes the boundaries and expands on the sounds of punk. That punk being an attitude not a musical style.
Isn't that the essence of post-punk? That is, it embraces punk's rejection of pop conventionality and of strict technique, but sets aside that kind of rock n roll purity. To me, punk as musical style is a dead end. Yes, some fantastic records along the way—absolutely super-amazing records that I'll always love—but very quickly as a form, on a larger scale, it shows itself to be a closed space, especially once hardcore decided to push towards a harder, faster, simpler purism. Which plenty of hardcore acts concluded themselves after a few years. Fine as a stage for exploration, but as an end point unto itself? Meh.
Yeah I agree with the straight jacket and various corners that punk had forced itself into. Many bands were just content with going 1-2-3-4 blam! But there were always bands that wanted to stretch out musically. Even before the post-punk term was coined there were people who realised that it was an attitude.

Post punk is just another narrow minded term to try to label a sound. When you can't label an attitude as easily. I know you and I have had similar discussions about this over the years.

To me an artist like Eno can have some music that could easily be called post punk but that would simply be lazy with an artist who is unafraid of style/sound and experimentation.
It seems as though most subgenre names are ultimately pretty lazy catch-alls that are necessary for journalists to have a "scene" to get kids excited about, and for record stores to be able to organize their stock. Just look at shoegaze! I myself just consider post-punk bands to be the ones that you and Doc mention—the ones who realized almost right off the bat that the ramalama style could only go so far, and that the truly punk thing to do is to subvert expectations or follow your own muse. So while Eno's (since you mention him as a gray-area type) sound is VERY obviously an influence on those bands, I wouldn't feel comfortable if somebody said he was post-punk, as it's more of a chronological/antecedent-based designation to me, if that makes sense. Some of the NY bands are a little more gray as well—you might be able to call them post-punk, but they weren't really reacting to/moving on from an established punk movement, they just started with that mindset already, as you noted about Eno.
There's also the suggestion that genres are tools of the record companies (you like this band that sounds like this, then you'll also like that band that also sounds like this). Less cynically, when there is so much music to sift thru, as much as we'd like to get rid of labels, we need them as filters to help us in conversation and to organize how we evaluate things. Labels aren't a bad thing as long as they're a tool used by us, rather than a tool that controls us.
Being only 38, I didn't really notice that kind of promotion until around high school. CDs would come with a sticker saying "For fans of [whatever band]." How did the labels manifest that kind of thing in the 70s and 80s?
WWK: I feel confident we haven't heard the last from Dr. Harvey Camel.

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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:18pm
Kory wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:10pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:04pm


Isn't that the essence of post-punk? That is, it embraces punk's rejection of pop conventionality and of strict technique, but sets aside that kind of rock n roll purity. To me, punk as musical style is a dead end. Yes, some fantastic records along the way—absolutely super-amazing records that I'll always love—but very quickly as a form, on a larger scale, it shows itself to be a closed space, especially once hardcore decided to push towards a harder, faster, simpler purism. Which plenty of hardcore acts concluded themselves after a few years. Fine as a stage for exploration, but as an end point unto itself? Meh.
Yeah I agree with the straight jacket and various corners that punk had forced itself into. Many bands were just content with going 1-2-3-4 blam! But there were always bands that wanted to stretch out musically. Even before the post-punk term was coined there were people who realised that it was an attitude.

Post punk is just another narrow minded term to try to label a sound. When you can't label an attitude as easily. I know you and I have had similar discussions about this over the years.

To me an artist like Eno can have some music that could easily be called post punk but that would simply be lazy with an artist who is unafraid of style/sound and experimentation.
It seems as though most subgenre names are ultimately pretty lazy catch-alls that are necessary for journalists to have a "scene" to get kids excited about, and for record stores to be able to organize their stock. Just look at shoegaze! I myself just consider post-punk bands to be the ones that you and Doc mention—the ones who realized almost right off the bat that the ramalama style could only go so far, and that the truly punk thing to do is to subvert expectations or follow your own muse. So while Eno's (since you mention him as a gray-area type) sound is VERY obviously an influence on those bands, I wouldn't feel comfortable if somebody said he was post-punk, as it's more of a chronological/antecedent-based designation to me, if that makes sense. Some of the NY bands are a little more gray as well—you might be able to call them post-punk, but they weren't really reacting to/moving on from an established punk movement, they just started with that mindset already, as you noted about Eno.
There's also the suggestion that genres are tools of the record companies (you like this band that sounds like this, then you'll also like that band that also sounds like this). Less cynically, when there is so much music to sift thru, as much as we'd like to get rid of labels, we need them as filters to help us in conversation and to organize how we evaluate things. Labels aren't a bad thing as long as they're a tool used by us, rather than a tool that controls us.
Being only 38, I didn't really notice that kind of promotion until around high school. CDs would come with a sticker saying "For fans of [whatever band]." How did the labels manifest that kind of thing in the 70s and 80s?
Basically record shop sections, but also ads in magazines for new albums. Whether the music biz or Hollywood, the principle of imitation reigns. If you like a movie with Cary Grant, you'll like more movies with Cary Grant. Or, if you like this suspense movie with Cary Grant, you'll like this suspense movie with Jimmy Stewart. It always comes down to marketing and the assumption that we prefer to repeat things we liked before. If we all truly privileged originality, marketers would have no clue how to promote cultural goods. Arguably, we've been trained to want more of the same because that's to the culture industry's health.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

gkbill
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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by gkbill »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:25pm
Kory wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:18pm
Kory wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 8:10pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Mar 2021, 7:58pm


Yeah I agree with the straight jacket and various corners that punk had forced itself into. Many bands were just content with going 1-2-3-4 blam! But there were always bands that wanted to stretch out musically. Even before the post-punk term was coined there were people who realised that it was an attitude.

Post punk is just another narrow minded term to try to label a sound. When you can't label an attitude as easily. I know you and I have had similar discussions about this over the years.

To me an artist like Eno can have some music that could easily be called post punk but that would simply be lazy with an artist who is unafraid of style/sound and experimentation.
It seems as though most subgenre names are ultimately pretty lazy catch-alls that are necessary for journalists to have a "scene" to get kids excited about, and for record stores to be able to organize their stock. Just look at shoegaze! I myself just consider post-punk bands to be the ones that you and Doc mention—the ones who realized almost right off the bat that the ramalama style could only go so far, and that the truly punk thing to do is to subvert expectations or follow your own muse. So while Eno's (since you mention him as a gray-area type) sound is VERY obviously an influence on those bands, I wouldn't feel comfortable if somebody said he was post-punk, as it's more of a chronological/antecedent-based designation to me, if that makes sense. Some of the NY bands are a little more gray as well—you might be able to call them post-punk, but they weren't really reacting to/moving on from an established punk movement, they just started with that mindset already, as you noted about Eno.
There's also the suggestion that genres are tools of the record companies (you like this band that sounds like this, then you'll also like that band that also sounds like this). Less cynically, when there is so much music to sift thru, as much as we'd like to get rid of labels, we need them as filters to help us in conversation and to organize how we evaluate things. Labels aren't a bad thing as long as they're a tool used by us, rather than a tool that controls us.
Being only 38, I didn't really notice that kind of promotion until around high school. CDs would come with a sticker saying "For fans of [whatever band]." How did the labels manifest that kind of thing in the 70s and 80s?
Basically record shop sections, but also ads in magazines for new albums. Whether the music biz or Hollywood, the principle of imitation reigns. If you like a movie with Cary Grant, you'll like more movies with Cary Grant. Or, if you like this suspense movie with Cary Grant, you'll like this suspense movie with Jimmy Stewart. It always comes down to marketing and the assumption that we prefer to repeat things we liked before. If we all truly privileged originality, marketers would have no clue how to promote cultural goods. Arguably, we've been trained to want more of the same because that's to the culture industry's health.
Hello,

This concept is a bit cynical. I like ska so I'll seek out more ska. There's an intrinsic component. I understand how some are trained (or conditioned) as you've described - there's a lot of money to be made if you can coerce people to desire and thus purchase your product - but some selections are made consciously and independently. I guess that's why you stated "Arguably".

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Re: Sex Pistols

Post by tepista »

I've never understood what "net worth" means.
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