What's so post about post-punk?

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tepista
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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

Post by tepista »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Dec 2019, 9:20pm
tepista wrote:
27 Dec 2019, 8:58pm
.
Mrs. Mao's Happy Time Smile Factory?
In the form of a question, please.
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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

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tepista wrote:
27 Dec 2019, 8:58pm
.
Who are S Club 7?

Dr. Medulla
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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

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Guys and gals and midnight pals, a cool music blog loaded with punk and post-punk obscurities: https://dieordiy2.blogspot.com
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

Post by gkbill »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Dec 2019, 8:08pm
Guys and gals and midnight pals, a cool music blog loaded with punk and post-punk obscurities: https://dieordiy2.blogspot.com
Hello,

It's interesting to listen to some of the bands on this site. Some were really eclectic (I'm being kind), some wouldn't be worth a $2 cover charge, and some were obviously just doing it for themselves. Interesting is the best descriptive.

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

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gkbill wrote:
31 Dec 2019, 10:19pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Dec 2019, 8:08pm
Guys and gals and midnight pals, a cool music blog loaded with punk and post-punk obscurities: https://dieordiy2.blogspot.com
Hello,

It's interesting to listen to some of the bands on this site. Some were really eclectic (I'm being kind), some wouldn't be worth a $2 cover charge, and some were obviously just doing it for themselves. Interesting is the best descriptive.
I love finding out about these groups who barely left a trace. It seems more true to the whole punk ethos of just taking your shot, committing your statement to tape or vinyl and then going on with your life. I said months ago that it'd be a neat alternative history of punk to write it while deliberately excluding all the usual suspects who have ascended to the level of canon. Just a collection of little bombs that went off, but the pattern kept happening.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Jan 2020, 7:24am
gkbill wrote:
31 Dec 2019, 10:19pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Dec 2019, 8:08pm
Guys and gals and midnight pals, a cool music blog loaded with punk and post-punk obscurities: https://dieordiy2.blogspot.com
Hello,

It's interesting to listen to some of the bands on this site. Some were really eclectic (I'm being kind), some wouldn't be worth a $2 cover charge, and some were obviously just doing it for themselves. Interesting is the best descriptive.
I love finding out about these groups who barely left a trace. It seems more true to the whole punk ethos of just taking your shot, committing your statement to tape or vinyl and then going on with your life. I said months ago that it'd be a neat alternative history of punk to write it while deliberately excluding all the usual suspects who have ascended to the level of canon. Just a collection of little bombs that went off, but the pattern kept happening.
Very interesting to consider that if Devoto had his way, that would have been the Buzzcocks.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 12:29pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Jan 2020, 7:24am
gkbill wrote:
31 Dec 2019, 10:19pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Dec 2019, 8:08pm
Guys and gals and midnight pals, a cool music blog loaded with punk and post-punk obscurities: https://dieordiy2.blogspot.com
Hello,

It's interesting to listen to some of the bands on this site. Some were really eclectic (I'm being kind), some wouldn't be worth a $2 cover charge, and some were obviously just doing it for themselves. Interesting is the best descriptive.
I love finding out about these groups who barely left a trace. It seems more true to the whole punk ethos of just taking your shot, committing your statement to tape or vinyl and then going on with your life. I said months ago that it'd be a neat alternative history of punk to write it while deliberately excluding all the usual suspects who have ascended to the level of canon. Just a collection of little bombs that went off, but the pattern kept happening.
Very interesting to consider that if Devoto had his way, that would have been the Buzzcocks.
Likewise how much of First Issue reflected Lydon's wish for the Pistols.

The more I think about it, the more I prefer your idea of treating post-punk as punk having moved beyond the major centres. It gets us away from aesthetic considerations that have always been problematic—i.e., punk has to sound like the Ramones/Pistols/Clash—and steers us to the ideological and attitudinal. Keep punk as the umbrella concept—getting rid of post-punk altogether—and then subdivide on aesthetic and more precise ideological grounds.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:07pm
Likewise how much of First Issue reflected Lydon's wish for the Pistols.
I'm foggy on this. Was Lydon a one-and-done guy at that time?
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:07pm
The more I think about it, the more I prefer your idea of treating post-punk as punk having moved beyond the major centres. It gets us away from aesthetic considerations that have always been problematic—i.e., punk has to sound like the Ramones/Pistols/Clash—and steers us to the ideological and attitudinal. Keep punk as the umbrella concept—getting rid of post-punk altogether—and then subdivide on aesthetic and more precise ideological grounds.
I'll be proud to have contributed to your class, as long as we can get over those humps in definition we uncovered earlier.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

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Kory wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:39pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:07pm
Likewise how much of First Issue reflected Lydon's wish for the Pistols.
I'm foggy on this. Was Lydon a one-and-done guy at that time?
Not sure what you mean here. After the Pistols ended but PiL began, he complained about how conventional the Pistols records sounded. He wanted something aggressive and abrasive that would sound like rock's death. First Issue sounded like rock but at the same time like a fuck-you to rock. And given how Metal Box then went way past that, it's not hard to think that First Issue's sound was at least partly a response or reaction to his dissatisfaction with how the Pistols sounded on record.
The more I think about it, the more I prefer your idea of treating post-punk as punk having moved beyond the major centres. It gets us away from aesthetic considerations that have always been problematic—i.e., punk has to sound like the Ramones/Pistols/Clash—and steers us to the ideological and attitudinal. Keep punk as the umbrella concept—getting rid of post-punk altogether—and then subdivide on aesthetic and more precise ideological grounds.
I'll be proud to have contributed to your class, as long as we can get over those humps in definition we uncovered earlier.
One thing about the definitions is that it encourages us to think not just about the differences—post-punk as getting past punk—but looking for more continuities. Making the assumption of a greater commonality to it all, the differences of the "scenes" (not just geographic scenes but aesthetic ones, like, say minimalist synth or the dub-funk of the Pop Group) may stand out more meaningfully. And (assuming I do get to do this punk class) it does free me up to consider things like goth as under the umbrella. A wider canvas is a lot more appealing than a narrow one.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 2:27pm
Kory wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:39pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:07pm
Likewise how much of First Issue reflected Lydon's wish for the Pistols.
I'm foggy on this. Was Lydon a one-and-done guy at that time?
Not sure what you mean here. After the Pistols ended but PiL began, he complained about how conventional the Pistols records sounded. He wanted something aggressive and abrasive that would sound like rock's death. First Issue sounded like rock but at the same time like a fuck-you to rock. And given how Metal Box then went way past that, it's not hard to think that First Issue's sound was at least partly a response or reaction to his dissatisfaction with how the Pistols sounded on record.
You were talking about how appealing those under-the-radar bands are to you because they just release maybe a single or EP to say what they need to within the context of punk and then are never heard from again. I thought you were comparing Lydon to that philosophy.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: What's so post about post-punk?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 4:01pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 2:27pm
Kory wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:39pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Jan 2020, 1:07pm
Likewise how much of First Issue reflected Lydon's wish for the Pistols.
I'm foggy on this. Was Lydon a one-and-done guy at that time?
Not sure what you mean here. After the Pistols ended but PiL began, he complained about how conventional the Pistols records sounded. He wanted something aggressive and abrasive that would sound like rock's death. First Issue sounded like rock but at the same time like a fuck-you to rock. And given how Metal Box then went way past that, it's not hard to think that First Issue's sound was at least partly a response or reaction to his dissatisfaction with how the Pistols sounded on record.
You were talking about how appealing those under-the-radar bands are to you because they just release maybe a single or EP to say what they need to within the context of punk and then are never heard from again. I thought you were comparing Lydon to that philosophy.
Ah, I see. I went all brain glitchy again and thought you were talking about Magazine being Devoto's proper vision of Buzzcocks.

(I recall reading Jamie Reid back in '77 advocating against the Pistols doing an album and instead just quit. Release a few singles and disappear, like a guerilla attack. Conceptually, that has a lot of appeal.)
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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