No not fiction.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 6:28amIs that fiction? I'm thinking of fiction that can somehow be thought of as demonstrating a punk sensibility (however that might be defined).Marky Dread wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 5:38amNot a short story but you should read this.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑09 Mar 2020, 5:35pmThought: Can anyone recommend any novels or short stories that they would consider punk? I have a few ideas here, too, but always up for others.
Punk … for credit
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58972
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Punk … for credit
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Punk … for credit
Can think of only a handful of novels that have dealt thematically with punk, the best probably Human Punk by John King. As for punk sensibility, kind of struggling a bit too. Irvine Welsh perhaps or Iain Banks? Wondering did punk leave that much of a mark at all, on the mainstream anyway? Something like ballard, as recently mentioned here, might fit the bill but more as an influencer of punk than being influenced by it. Interesting question.
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58972
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Punk … for credit
So try this one on for size.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58972
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Punk … for credit
Ha! looks like Low Down Low beat me to the punch.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58972
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Punk … for credit
Well if you want a book about punk that you consider fiction. Then I suggest you read a book about Wire.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Punk … for credit
Theres a first time for everything
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116558
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Punk … for credit
I'm taking a fairly wide view of punk for this course and accepting post-punk, too, so nyeh, thppt, double thppt.Marky Dread wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 7:36amWell if you want a book about punk that you consider fiction. Then I suggest you read a book about Wire.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116558
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Punk … for credit
The King novel looks very promising for a sweeping consideration, based on the synopsis I read. Maybe even the kind of thing to start a course with. Thanks, LDL and Marky!Low Down Low wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 7:32amCan think of only a handful of novels that have dealt thematically with punk, the best probably Human Punk by John King. As for punk sensibility, kind of struggling a bit too. Irvine Welsh perhaps or Iain Banks? Wondering did punk leave that much of a mark at all, on the mainstream anyway? Something like ballard, as recently mentioned here, might fit the bill but more as an influencer of punk than being influenced by it. Interesting question.
I thought of Welsh, too, and will probably do some skimming. I have this on interlibrary loan to see if it has promise.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58972
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Punk … for credit
12XUDr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 7:45amI'm taking a fairly wide view of punk for this course and accepting post-punk, too, so nyeh, thppt, double thppt.Marky Dread wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 7:36amWell if you want a book about punk that you consider fiction. Then I suggest you read a book about Wire.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: Punk … for credit
I think the roots of punk are certainly more left than right but probably predominantly apolitical at least in a formal sense.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 6:23amThat's definitely going to form part of it because I've long asked how we are so confident that the "left" version of punk is its true spirit while the fascist side is heretical? Why isn't it the other way around? Or why are the Nazis heretical? Punk has always attracted and bred some nasty fuckers and we should better appreciate that something there. There is a collection of essays called White Riot: Punk Rock and the Politics of Race that I'll be drawing from on this point.Flex wrote: ↑09 Mar 2020, 9:34pmIm always fascinated by the ugly, reactionary side of punk - your Skrewdrivers and what not, but even more acceptable but still somewhat reactionary elements of the hardcore and oi scenes. The tension of the ideals of so much of the scene that can also spawn this ugly underbelly is fascinating to me. And may have some resonance in our current landscape...
As for another person to try and get a snippet from I would suggest Wayne Kramer. Gives some background on the beginnings of mixing aggressive music with politics.
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116558
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Punk … for credit
The fascist leanings in punk are in its impulses to action for its own sake—the liberation in violence, even if it's just moshing—and often a suspicion of intellectuals as authoritarian in some way. The punk figures we admire here are the ones who promote critical thinking, but some take critical thinking to mean blanket rejection of other views, which leads down an ugly path. You're right, I think, in calling punk predominantly apolitical, but that's another way of saying it can then tip between anarchist, socialist, or fascist.revbob wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 8:44amI think the roots of punk are certainly more left than right but probably predominantly apolitical at least in a formal sense.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Mar 2020, 6:23amThat's definitely going to form part of it because I've long asked how we are so confident that the "left" version of punk is its true spirit while the fascist side is heretical? Why isn't it the other way around? Or why are the Nazis heretical? Punk has always attracted and bred some nasty fuckers and we should better appreciate that something there. There is a collection of essays called White Riot: Punk Rock and the Politics of Race that I'll be drawing from on this point.Flex wrote: ↑09 Mar 2020, 9:34pmIm always fascinated by the ugly, reactionary side of punk - your Skrewdrivers and what not, but even more acceptable but still somewhat reactionary elements of the hardcore and oi scenes. The tension of the ideals of so much of the scene that can also spawn this ugly underbelly is fascinating to me. And may have some resonance in our current landscape...
That's an interesting choice, and not one I'd have thought of!As for another person to try and get a snippet from I would suggest Wayne Kramer. Gives some background on the beginnings of mixing aggressive music with politics.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Punk … for credit
Rainald Goetz was certainly influenced by Punk at the time.
Who pfaffed the pfaff? Who got pfaffed tonight?
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116558
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Punk … for credit
Never heard of him, but he seems a rather … engaged fellow.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Punk … for credit
Bloody right.
Who pfaffed the pfaff? Who got pfaffed tonight?
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58972
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Punk … for credit
I hope he eventually gave Keith Levene his hair back
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia