Punk … for credit

[Kory]

I'll try to write something more substantively responding (not disagreeing, I think we're on the same page again with your last post), but just thinking of the merits of hardcore, if it weren't for hardcore Young Flex probably never would have gotten that into punk and I might not even be on these boards. And you'd all have to live your essentially empty lives without ever thinking about how great it would be if Dave Matthews collaborated with the New Radicals or whatever sort of thing I like to come up with.

Matthews/Rollins Band

[Flex]

I'll try to write something more substantively responding (not disagreeing, I think we're on the same page again with your last post), but just thinking of the merits of hardcore, if it weren't for hardcore Young Flex probably never would have gotten that into punk and I might not even be on these boards. And you'd all have to live your essentially empty lives without ever thinking about how great it would be if Dave Matthews collaborated with the New Radicals or whatever sort of thing I like to come up with.

Matthews/Rollins Band

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

[Dr. Medulla]

All this is a reminder of why, in my punk seminar, I end up kind of promoting a deep skepticism toward punk. I can tell myself I'm being Socratic (and consciously I am) by encouraging students to be critical, but I think I am betraying my own feelings that I prefer punk without the punks (i.e., Christianity without the Christians). Or maybe I've just settled on a position where I treat punk like Marxism or libertarianism or anarchism—it's a critical tool that I apply and nothing more. I value it but the contradictions and evidence of failures keep me from embracing it.

[Dr. Medulla]

I'll try to write something more substantively responding (not disagreeing, I think we're on the same page again with your last post), but just thinking of the merits of hardcore, if it weren't for hardcore Young Flex probably never would have gotten that into punk and I might not even be on these boards. And you'd all have to live your essentially empty lives without ever thinking about how great it would be if Dave Matthews collaborated with the New Radicals or whatever sort of thing I like to come up with.

Matthews/Rollins Band

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

[Flex]

I'll try to write something more substantively responding (not disagreeing, I think we're on the same page again with your last post), but just thinking of the merits of hardcore, if it weren't for hardcore Young Flex probably never would have gotten that into punk and I might not even be on these boards. And you'd all have to live your essentially empty lives without ever thinking about how great it would be if Dave Matthews collaborated with the New Radicals or whatever sort of thing I like to come up with.

Matthews/Rollins Band

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

[Dr. Medulla]

I'll try to write something more substantively responding (not disagreeing, I think we're on the same page again with your last post), but just thinking of the merits of hardcore, if it weren't for hardcore Young Flex probably never would have gotten that into punk and I might not even be on these boards. And you'd all have to live your essentially empty lives without ever thinking about how great it would be if Dave Matthews collaborated with the New Radicals or whatever sort of thing I like to come up with.

Matthews/Rollins Band

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

You do know I'll be leaving after Wolter cuts back his nostril bush.

[Flex]

Matthews/Rollins Band

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

You do know I'll be leaving after Wolter cuts back his nostril bush.

He's saving that for the encore with Dave where Dave clips Wolter's toenails at the same time

[Dr. Medulla]

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

You do know I'll be leaving after Wolter cuts back his nostril bush.

He's saving that for the encore with Dave where Dave clips Wolter's toenails at the same time

Wait—what the fuck is Wolter going to do in his opening slot? He better give the crowd something or we'll destroy him.

[Kory]

I'll try to write something more substantively responding (not disagreeing, I think we're on the same page again with your last post), but just thinking of the merits of hardcore, if it weren't for hardcore Young Flex probably never would have gotten that into punk and I might not even be on these boards. And you'd all have to live your essentially empty lives without ever thinking about how great it would be if Dave Matthews collaborated with the New Radicals or whatever sort of thing I like to come up with.

Matthews/Rollins Band

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

I think we should collaborate on a DMB comp for Doc.

[Dr. Medulla]

Matthews/Rollins Band

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

I think we should collaborate on a DMB comp for Doc.

I will devote as much time to listening as I would watching Wolter trim his nose hair.

(I really hope Wolter's nose is burning and he's panicking as to why.)

[Kory]

I would legitimately pay more to see that in concert than to see the rolling stones

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

I think we should collaborate on a DMB comp for Doc.

I will devote as much time to listening as I would watching Wolter trim his nose hair.

(I really hope Wolter's nose is burning and he's panicking as to why.)

It's not the side effects of the cocaine.

[Dr. Medulla]

Ditto, tho that's more a statement about my attitude towards the Stones. I might pay more to see Wolter trim his nose hair than see the Stones.

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

I think we should collaborate on a DMB comp for Doc.

I will devote as much time to listening as I would watching Wolter trim his nose hair.

(I really hope Wolter's nose is burning and he's panicking as to why.)

It's not the side effects of the cocaine.

Snorting Kraft BBQ sauce.

[Flex]

Kory! We found is another Dave fan on the board! Gotta see him on tour with Wolter and His Nose Hairs opening.

I think we should collaborate on a DMB comp for Doc.

I will devote as much time to listening as I would watching Wolter trim his nose hair.

(I really hope Wolter's nose is burning and he's panicking as to why.)

It's not the side effects of the cocaine.

Snorting Kraft BBQ sauce.

The burning sensation is the authenticity

[Dr. Medulla]

I think we should collaborate on a DMB comp for Doc.

I will devote as much time to listening as I would watching Wolter trim his nose hair.

(I really hope Wolter's nose is burning and he's panicking as to why.)

It's not the side effects of the cocaine.

Snorting Kraft BBQ sauce.

The burning sensation is the authenticity

From the pain, Wolter achieves revelation: I've been all backwards on this BBQ sauce stuff.

[gkbill]

It's just a shame the originators aren't the ones that get to make the rules, but by and large it seems like a lot of them don't like to be thought of as belonging to a movement in the first place (speaking more generally here, not necessarily about punk).

The originators of a scene tend to be escaping from situations with suffocating rules, so they're motivated more by operating with maximum freedom of movement. Closing off possibilities right away would feel like hypocrisy. So the openness fuels the scene but that leads to a growth that kills it. My inclination is that the only way out of the trap is to self-segregate and deliberately pull up the ladder early on. Maybe that still kills the scene thru stagnation, but the open model seems to lead to a kind of authoritarianism.

What would this look like in a practical sense? I suppose you could just deny the newcomers gigs opening for the established bands, but aside from that?

ostracizing newcomers socially too,. probably. Punk is as much about the social connections as anything, so I think you'd have to isolate and alienate any newcomers as quickly as possible.

I would guess that from a musical performance perspective, it'd be all house parties. Ultimately, it'd still be a shit-ton of gatekeeping, but the emphasis would be on keeping the corrupting outside from entering more than monitoring behaviour inside. Tho I doubt that internal controls could be avoided.

Maybe the other model to think about is like migratory indigenous groups in North America. The size of the group had a size cap and when the group got too large, it split up into a separate tribe or clan. So maybe scenes need to have a sense of size and keep encourage splintering when the group gets too large.

Hello,

I recall being in Albany, NY during the best years of punk ('79-'82) in my experiences. There were one or two punk bars which had bands on the occasional evening. After a while, more and more people started showing up at the places (288 Lark and the Rockin' Chateau Lounge). The original denizens disliked all these others realizing what was going on was pretty cool. The originals hated it but the owners of the bars felt it was okay - surviving financially. I guess it had to happen.