Punk … for credit

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Kory
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:22pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:58pm
Marky Dread wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:52pm
I'm very critical of punk. I adore it for sure as the change it gave me on personal level was immense but and it's a huge but there is so much bullshit attached to it. So many of the punk ideals were nonsense and really dumb. Many hippie ideals were based in much more sound foundations.
That's one of the amusing things about punk. The people who have taken it beyond music take a lot of inspiration from the 60s counterculture (e.g., Biafra, MacKaye).
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I also like the geographic explanation for post-punk, but I wonder what that means for PiL and SIouxsie coming out of London right at the beginning.
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Kory
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:31pm
Marky Dread wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:16pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:04pm
Exactly. Punk is a relative rarity in popular music (hip hop also comes to mind) in that it has spawned wider forms of artistic expression but also political activism and business models. We'd never think about, say, soul or disco as generating something approximating a philosophy. That's what I'm trying to tease out—is there more to punk than punk music? And if so, what's its value? I think, for example, that punk has influenced me as a historian, encouraging me to look at the detritus of popular culture (e.g., pulp novels, exploitation films) as having real meaning and value. I gravitate to those sources in the same way that punk validates marginalized people by rejecting conventional hierarchies. That stuff is important to me. That's the kind of mindset I'm hoping to encourage—be open to possibilities by rejecting those hierarchies and build something personally meaningful.
Then it's a very difficult subject to make sense of as it has had such a profound affect on so many things and it means different things to different people.

But you can see and feel how the attitude and fashion of punk is everywhere. But you also have to analyse what made punk and how and what informed it. There are many positives but as you mentioned previously also negatives. Where punk addressed racism it to was very easily hijacked by racist groups.
And that's what I'm hoping for with this course. For students to become more critical towards punk as a concept—I'm assuming most if not all will be punk fans
Do you think you'll make that clear in the course description (as opposed to implying that it's more about the music rather than philosophy) so as not to attract any hardliners who won't accept criticism, or keep it hidden and drop a surprise rigorous course on a bunch of dumb punks?
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Marky Dread
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Marky Dread »

Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:31pm
Marky Dread wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:16pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 6:04pm
Exactly. Punk is a relative rarity in popular music (hip hop also comes to mind) in that it has spawned wider forms of artistic expression but also political activism and business models. We'd never think about, say, soul or disco as generating something approximating a philosophy. That's what I'm trying to tease out—is there more to punk than punk music? And if so, what's its value? I think, for example, that punk has influenced me as a historian, encouraging me to look at the detritus of popular culture (e.g., pulp novels, exploitation films) as having real meaning and value. I gravitate to those sources in the same way that punk validates marginalized people by rejecting conventional hierarchies. That stuff is important to me. That's the kind of mindset I'm hoping to encourage—be open to possibilities by rejecting those hierarchies and build something personally meaningful.
Then it's a very difficult subject to make sense of as it has had such a profound affect on so many things and it means different things to different people.

But you can see and feel how the attitude and fashion of punk is everywhere. But you also have to analyse what made punk and how and what informed it. There are many positives but as you mentioned previously also negatives. Where punk addressed racism it to was very easily hijacked by racist groups.
And that's what I'm hoping for with this course. For students to become more critical towards punk as a concept—I'm assuming most if not all will be punk fans
Do you think you'll make that clear in the course description (as opposed to implying that it's more about the music rather than philosophy) so as not to attract any hardliners who won't accept criticism, or keep it hidden and drop a surprise rigorous course on a bunch of dumb punks?
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Re: Punk … for credit

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Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:24pm
I also like the geographic explanation for post-punk, but I wonder what that means for PiL and SIouxsie coming out of London right at the beginning.
I don't think we have to be really obsessive or nitpicky about stuff like that. By which I mean that the geographic argument is a way to be more inclusive in something that I think we all appreciate as having more in common than not—punk and post-punk, that is—rather than look for reasons to exclude.
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:28pm
Do you think you'll make that clear in the course description (as opposed to implying that it's more about the music rather than philosophy) so as not to attract any hardliners who won't accept criticism, or keep it hidden and drop a surprise rigorous course on a bunch of dumb punks?
Oh, sure. First day of class I'm always the asshole who lays out the demanding expectations, especially (given that I usually teach "fun" themes like popular culture and popular music) because many think it'll be a blow-off course. The complaints I always get in my evaluations are that I assign too much reading. Boo hoo, a book every two weeks—welcome to your senior year. I'd rather have a small, dedicated group than a bunch of people who are warm bodies and contribute nothing because they're fundamentally lazy and/or intellectually incurious. After that, tho, I'm a pretty soft touch. There aren't many circumstances where I don't give extensions and my evaluation for participation is pretty lax. As long as people try and push themselves, I'll meet them halfway.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: Punk … for credit

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Marky Dread wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:36pm
Oi! Heart bypass not brain bypass!
Punks not braindead!
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Kory
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:46pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:24pm
I also like the geographic explanation for post-punk, but I wonder what that means for PiL and SIouxsie coming out of London right at the beginning.
I don't think we have to be really obsessive or nitpicky about stuff like that. By which I mean that the geographic argument is a way to be more inclusive in something that I think we all appreciate as having more in common than not—punk and post-punk, that is—rather than look for reasons to exclude.
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:28pm
Do you think you'll make that clear in the course description (as opposed to implying that it's more about the music rather than philosophy) so as not to attract any hardliners who won't accept criticism, or keep it hidden and drop a surprise rigorous course on a bunch of dumb punks?
Oh, sure. First day of class I'm always the asshole who lays out the demanding expectations, especially (given that I usually teach "fun" themes like popular culture and popular music) because many think it'll be a blow-off course. The complaints I always get in my evaluations are that I assign too much reading. Boo hoo, a book every two weeks—welcome to your senior year. I'd rather have a small, dedicated group than a bunch of people who are warm bodies and contribute nothing because they're fundamentally lazy and/or intellectually incurious. After that, tho, I'm a pretty soft touch. There aren't many circumstances where I don't give extensions and my evaluation for participation is pretty lax. As long as people try and push themselves, I'll meet them halfway.
I'm applying to your school now.
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:46pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:24pm
I also like the geographic explanation for post-punk, but I wonder what that means for PiL and SIouxsie coming out of London right at the beginning.
I don't think we have to be really obsessive or nitpicky about stuff like that. By which I mean that the geographic argument is a way to be more inclusive in something that I think we all appreciate as having more in common than not—punk and post-punk, that is—rather than look for reasons to exclude.
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:28pm
Do you think you'll make that clear in the course description (as opposed to implying that it's more about the music rather than philosophy) so as not to attract any hardliners who won't accept criticism, or keep it hidden and drop a surprise rigorous course on a bunch of dumb punks?
Oh, sure. First day of class I'm always the asshole who lays out the demanding expectations, especially (given that I usually teach "fun" themes like popular culture and popular music) because many think it'll be a blow-off course. The complaints I always get in my evaluations are that I assign too much reading. Boo hoo, a book every two weeks—welcome to your senior year. I'd rather have a small, dedicated group than a bunch of people who are warm bodies and contribute nothing because they're fundamentally lazy and/or intellectually incurious. After that, tho, I'm a pretty soft touch. There aren't many circumstances where I don't give extensions and my evaluation for participation is pretty lax. As long as people try and push themselves, I'll meet them halfway.
I'm applying to your school now.
No bass players. Read the fine print.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Kory
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 2:07pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:46pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:24pm
I also like the geographic explanation for post-punk, but I wonder what that means for PiL and SIouxsie coming out of London right at the beginning.
I don't think we have to be really obsessive or nitpicky about stuff like that. By which I mean that the geographic argument is a way to be more inclusive in something that I think we all appreciate as having more in common than not—punk and post-punk, that is—rather than look for reasons to exclude.
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:28pm
Do you think you'll make that clear in the course description (as opposed to implying that it's more about the music rather than philosophy) so as not to attract any hardliners who won't accept criticism, or keep it hidden and drop a surprise rigorous course on a bunch of dumb punks?
Oh, sure. First day of class I'm always the asshole who lays out the demanding expectations, especially (given that I usually teach "fun" themes like popular culture and popular music) because many think it'll be a blow-off course. The complaints I always get in my evaluations are that I assign too much reading. Boo hoo, a book every two weeks—welcome to your senior year. I'd rather have a small, dedicated group than a bunch of people who are warm bodies and contribute nothing because they're fundamentally lazy and/or intellectually incurious. After that, tho, I'm a pretty soft touch. There aren't many circumstances where I don't give extensions and my evaluation for participation is pretty lax. As long as people try and push themselves, I'll meet them halfway.
I'm applying to your school now.
No bass players. Read the fine print.
What about bassists?
WWK: I feel confident we haven't heard the last from Dr. Harvey Camel.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Punk … for credit

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Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 2:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 2:07pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:46pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:24pm
I also like the geographic explanation for post-punk, but I wonder what that means for PiL and SIouxsie coming out of London right at the beginning.
I don't think we have to be really obsessive or nitpicky about stuff like that. By which I mean that the geographic argument is a way to be more inclusive in something that I think we all appreciate as having more in common than not—punk and post-punk, that is—rather than look for reasons to exclude.
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 1:28pm
Do you think you'll make that clear in the course description (as opposed to implying that it's more about the music rather than philosophy) so as not to attract any hardliners who won't accept criticism, or keep it hidden and drop a surprise rigorous course on a bunch of dumb punks?
Oh, sure. First day of class I'm always the asshole who lays out the demanding expectations, especially (given that I usually teach "fun" themes like popular culture and popular music) because many think it'll be a blow-off course. The complaints I always get in my evaluations are that I assign too much reading. Boo hoo, a book every two weeks—welcome to your senior year. I'd rather have a small, dedicated group than a bunch of people who are warm bodies and contribute nothing because they're fundamentally lazy and/or intellectually incurious. After that, tho, I'm a pretty soft touch. There aren't many circumstances where I don't give extensions and my evaluation for participation is pretty lax. As long as people try and push themselves, I'll meet them halfway.
I'm applying to your school now.
No bass players. Read the fine print.
What about bassists?
Meh. Better than drummers, I guess.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: Punk … for credit

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Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 2:47pm
What about bassists?

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Kory
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Kory »

People say all this, but listen to a band without a bassist and tell me they're any good. You can't.
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Re: Punk … for credit

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Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 6:08pm
People say all this, but listen to a band without a bassist and tell me they're any good. You can't.
I assume you mean trad. rock bands. As in, electronic or other synth acts don't count. I'm not one of them, but people dig the Doors.

Just jivin' you, anyway. Two of my favourite groups, PiL and Gang of Four lost their fastball when their original bassist left.
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 6:17pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 6:08pm
People say all this, but listen to a band without a bassist and tell me they're any good. You can't.
I assume you mean trad. rock bands. As in, electronic or other synth acts don't count. I'm not one of them, but people dig the Doors.

Just jivin' you, anyway. Two of my favourite groups, PiL and Gang of Four lost their fastball when their original bassist left.
Don't forget the Doors frequently brought a session bassist on board because he was needed.


I wish I was needed.
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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 6:25pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 6:17pm
Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 6:08pm
People say all this, but listen to a band without a bassist and tell me they're any good. You can't.
I assume you mean trad. rock bands. As in, electronic or other synth acts don't count. I'm not one of them, but people dig the Doors.

Just jivin' you, anyway. Two of my favourite groups, PiL and Gang of Four lost their fastball when their original bassist left.
Don't forget the Doors frequently brought a session bassist on board because he was needed.


I wish I was needed.
I need you to clam up your yak hole! Again, seriously, I love drummer and bassist jokes as much as the next guy, but my ear gravitates to the rhythm section more than the glory hogs doing melody and that shit. I don't air guitar, but I'm a compulsive finger drummer.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: Punk … for credit

Post by gkbill »

Kory wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 6:08pm
People say all this, but listen to a band without a bassist and tell me they're any good. You can't.
Hello,

I love bass. I tried to play for a while but didn't have the time to devote to it - but you challenged me: The Black Keys, The White Stripes - no bass (at least early on)?

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