So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by tepista »

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in case anyone still doesn't know this is out
We reach the parts other combos cannot reach
We beach the beachheads other armies cannot beach
We speak the tongues other mouths cannot speak

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

tepista wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 5:55pm
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in case anyone still doesn't know this is out
Uh, read the title, dum dum. We all know about the old Wire that's out. Geez Louise …
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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Silent Majority »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 6:00pm
tepista wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 5:55pm
Image
in case anyone still doesn't know this is out
Uh, read the title, dum dum. We all know about the old Wire that's out. Geez Louise …
Walking into Rough Trade in Soho, 1977. Seeing 'Mannequin' in the New Releases section. One punk says to another:
Wave bye bye to the boss
It's our profit, it's his loss


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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 8:36pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 6:00pm
tepista wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 5:55pm
Image
in case anyone still doesn't know this is out
Uh, read the title, dum dum. We all know about the old Wire that's out. Geez Louise …
Walking into Rough Trade in Soho, 1977. Seeing 'Mannequin' in the New Releases section. One punk says to another:
Almost 45 years of being uncertain of Wire's release schedule. That qualifies as a tradition.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by IkarisOne »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 2:20pm
Kory wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 2:12pm
Did he have a falling-out with Laswell? I know he wanted to bring in his own musicians, but the album sounds good enough that using the same producer could have been fruitful if there wasn't a schism already.
I checked his second memoir. This is the only relevant passage:
With hindsight, we were beginning to fall into the treadmill of album-tour-album-tour. We initially started recording 9 in New York, with Bill Laswell. It wasn’t at the record company’s instigation, although they’d doubtless have loved an Album Part Two at that point. This was very much Bill volunteering his services. After a couple of days in the studio he said the band couldn’t play and he hated all our songs. He said he’d written songs and I should sack everyone and use his people, and come out with a U2-type product. I told him to fuck off and we packed our bags and left. I was fully committed to the band.

The more I think about this, the more my memory grows about poor old Bill and what he had to endure with me. In his head, I was the lead singer he always knew I could be, but I wouldn’t do it because I’ve got my own way. I’ve got my own learning curve. There is a point where I can take influence but I can’t take teaching. It goes back to school really. Don’t tell me what to do, tell me how to do it. That’s how it works with me.
I'm late to this conversation but what Laswell was pulling was typical scumbag producer trickery: muscle in on the publishing, cut the band out of royalties by using work-for-hire per diem players and isolate the singer from his support system and make him easier to control. Gee, sounds familiar, doesn't it? However, the case of 9 Laswell's instincts were correct. It's a terrible record, aside from "Disappointed."

I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."
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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."
I think of Album more as early PiL on steroids. Songs like Fishing, Round, and Bags seem to me to be more muscular versions of tracks that might have been found on previous albums.
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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 5:46pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."
I think of Album more as early PiL on steroids. Songs like Fishing, Round, and Bags seem to me to be more muscular versions of tracks that might have been found on previous albums.
I can't conceive of Levene signing off on that stuff. Album represents a clean break—PiL II, if you wish. It's the point where PiL is no longer about charting its own unusual path and becoming more easily classifiable in terms of what's going on around them. Lydon surrounded himself with more dedicated musicians, but it meant taking several steps towards conventionality. Don't get me wrong, I still love Album, even beyond nostalgia. But it's the moment where Lydon stops being essential.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 6:00pm
Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 5:46pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."
I think of Album more as early PiL on steroids. Songs like Fishing, Round, and Bags seem to me to be more muscular versions of tracks that might have been found on previous albums.
I can't conceive of Levene signing off on that stuff. Album represents a clean break—PiL II, if you wish. It's the point where PiL is no longer about charting its own unusual path and becoming more easily classifiable in terms of what's going on around them. Lydon surrounded himself with more dedicated musicians, but it meant taking several steps towards conventionality. Don't get me wrong, I still love Album, even beyond nostalgia. But it's the moment where Lydon stops being essential.
I dunno, Bags sound very much like a pop-oriented FoR, Fishing could have existed on TIWYW in a less developed form, etc. It doesn't feel as clean of a break to me as does Happy.
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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 6:00pm
Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 5:46pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."
I think of Album more as early PiL on steroids. Songs like Fishing, Round, and Bags seem to me to be more muscular versions of tracks that might have been found on previous albums.
I can't conceive of Levene signing off on that stuff. Album represents a clean break—PiL II, if you wish. It's the point where PiL is no longer about charting its own unusual path and becoming more easily classifiable in terms of what's going on around them. Lydon surrounded himself with more dedicated musicians, but it meant taking several steps towards conventionality. Don't get me wrong, I still love Album, even beyond nostalgia. But it's the moment where Lydon stops being essential.
I dunno, Bags sound very much like a pop-oriented FoR, Fishing could have existed on TIWYW in a less developed form, etc. It doesn't feel as clean of a break to me as does Happy.
How much of a role did/does Lydon have on the music? It was a completely different set of songwriters and producer from before, so the continuity would be strained unless Lydon was more hands-on in shaping the sound.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 7:08pm
Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 6:00pm
Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 5:46pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm


I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."
I think of Album more as early PiL on steroids. Songs like Fishing, Round, and Bags seem to me to be more muscular versions of tracks that might have been found on previous albums.
I can't conceive of Levene signing off on that stuff. Album represents a clean break—PiL II, if you wish. It's the point where PiL is no longer about charting its own unusual path and becoming more easily classifiable in terms of what's going on around them. Lydon surrounded himself with more dedicated musicians, but it meant taking several steps towards conventionality. Don't get me wrong, I still love Album, even beyond nostalgia. But it's the moment where Lydon stops being essential.
I dunno, Bags sound very much like a pop-oriented FoR, Fishing could have existed on TIWYW in a less developed form, etc. It doesn't feel as clean of a break to me as does Happy.
How much of a role did/does Lydon have on the music? It was a completely different set of songwriters and producer from before, so the continuity would be strained unless Lydon was more hands-on in shaping the sound.
I would expect that he has veto power over the music, or at least chooses promising candidates from a set of instrumental demos or something like that. I'm speaking purely in musical terms, like the type of drumbeat, the sparseness of a bassline, etc. I imagine that musicians working with Lydon have a sense of the kind of thing he's likely to approve of and write with that in mind.
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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 8:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 7:08pm
Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 6:00pm
Kory wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 5:46pm


I think of Album more as early PiL on steroids. Songs like Fishing, Round, and Bags seem to me to be more muscular versions of tracks that might have been found on previous albums.
I can't conceive of Levene signing off on that stuff. Album represents a clean break—PiL II, if you wish. It's the point where PiL is no longer about charting its own unusual path and becoming more easily classifiable in terms of what's going on around them. Lydon surrounded himself with more dedicated musicians, but it meant taking several steps towards conventionality. Don't get me wrong, I still love Album, even beyond nostalgia. But it's the moment where Lydon stops being essential.
I dunno, Bags sound very much like a pop-oriented FoR, Fishing could have existed on TIWYW in a less developed form, etc. It doesn't feel as clean of a break to me as does Happy.
How much of a role did/does Lydon have on the music? It was a completely different set of songwriters and producer from before, so the continuity would be strained unless Lydon was more hands-on in shaping the sound.
I would expect that he has veto power over the music, or at least chooses promising candidates from a set of instrumental demos or something like that. I'm speaking purely in musical terms, like the type of drumbeat, the sparseness of a bassline, etc. I imagine that musicians working with Lydon have a sense of the kind of thing he's likely to approve of and write with that in mind.
That makes sense. Sort of a conductor. I gather he trusts the current incarnation of PiL a great deal and is more open to their input.
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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by IkarisOne »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."


It's funny, it was Album that made me get serious about guitar for a few years, "Ease" in particular. I heard that Vai solo and said, "OK, fuck comic books." But Happy is of a piece with The Ideal Copy and Night Time/Brighter Than a Thousand Suns for me, along with Strange Times, Treasure, Saqarra Dogs, Peep Show some others not coming to mind at the moment. It was a cohort of punk noisemakers stop pretending they didn't know how to play and creating a new mainstream rock template. I remember "Seattle" being premiered on MTV the weekend I got married and it was how I felt in 1980 when I first "Public Image" or when I saw them open with "Where Are You" in 1982. Its why I can forgive Lydon so much: the man was the conduit for several of my youthful rock and roll epiphanies.

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 11:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."


It's funny, it was Album that made me get serious about guitar for a few years, "Ease" in particular. I heard that Vai solo and said, "OK, fuck comic books." But Happy is of a piece with The Ideal Copy and Night Time/Brighter Than a Thousand Suns for me, along with Strange Times, Treasure, Saqarra Dogs, Peep Show some others not coming to mind at the moment. It was a cohort of punk noisemakers stop pretending they didn't know how to play and creating a new mainstream rock template. I remember "Seattle" being premiered on MTV the weekend I got married and it was how I felt in 1980 when I first "Public Image" or when I saw them open with "Where Are You" in 1982. Its why I can forgive Lydon so much: the man was the conduit for several of my youthful rock and roll epiphanies.
I'm the same way—until his recent Trumpist turn, anyway—in that as much as his music has left me flat in recent, well, decades, the guy was the spark that changed my life by introducing me to punk. There's a debt there. He supercharged my imagination and provided a kind of outlet for my frustrations and inadequacies.

Even if "Seattle" no longer does much for me, I have a very clear memory of buying the 12" single, stopping in Saskatoon on my way to my sister's farm. It was a complete surprise, as I had no idea a new album or anything like that was coming. I got to my sister's and played both sides over and over, all weekend, just transfixed. I was still in my religious awe of punk and its most celebrated figures, so something new from John Lydon was Moses finding a new tablet and letting us know. I loved it so damned much, that uncomplicated relationship with music at that age, before we get older and more critical and often cynical.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: So- how didn't I know the new Wire was out?

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Feb 2021, 7:32am
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 11:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:57pm
IkarisOne wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 12:17pm
I do have to disagree on Happy. I really like that record and think it makes a great companion piece to Album. I'd go so far as to say the songwriting is better on Happy overall. I love John McGeoch though, so I'm very biased.
I'd entertain a concession to the songwriting on Happy?—Album is basically generic hard rock, albeit performed quite well—but the production is so … glittery. And it was on that album, in retrospect, that Lydon had exhausted whatever reserve he had as a lyricist. When your chorus goes, "You, you make me angry," you're not even trying. It's as cringeworthy as Joe's "And this is how we feel."


It's funny, it was Album that made me get serious about guitar for a few years, "Ease" in particular. I heard that Vai solo and said, "OK, fuck comic books." But Happy is of a piece with The Ideal Copy and Night Time/Brighter Than a Thousand Suns for me, along with Strange Times, Treasure, Saqarra Dogs, Peep Show some others not coming to mind at the moment. It was a cohort of punk noisemakers stop pretending they didn't know how to play and creating a new mainstream rock template. I remember "Seattle" being premiered on MTV the weekend I got married and it was how I felt in 1980 when I first "Public Image" or when I saw them open with "Where Are You" in 1982. Its why I can forgive Lydon so much: the man was the conduit for several of my youthful rock and roll epiphanies.
I'm the same way—until his recent Trumpist turn, anyway—in that as much as his music has left me flat in recent, well, decades, the guy was the spark that changed my life by introducing me to punk. There's a debt there. He supercharged my imagination and provided a kind of outlet for my frustrations and inadequacies.

Even if "Seattle" no longer does much for me, I have a very clear memory of buying the 12" single, stopping in Saskatoon on my way to my sister's farm. It was a complete surprise, as I had no idea a new album or anything like that was coming. I got to my sister's and played both sides over and over, all weekend, just transfixed. I was still in my religious awe of punk and its most celebrated figures, so something new from John Lydon was Moses finding a new tablet and letting us know. I loved it so damned much, that uncomplicated relationship with music at that age, before we get older and more critical and often cynical.
Can't really add much here. But when "Rise" came out I though that it was an exceptional single. It was more corporate sounding yet still managed to sound like nothing else being produced at the time. Steve Vai did some of his best work on "Album" maybe it allowed him some freedom to explore. I don't know just how much Ginger Baker contributed to the drums but the drum sound is also excellent on "Album".

I also like "Happy" it isn't as strong as "Album" but it is decent enough. "Fat Chance Hotel" showed some real promise of where the band could go with their sound.
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