If Music Could Talk

gkbill wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 7:46pm

Sufjan Stevens - It's pretty meh. I would challenge your assessment of Harding (I was in Oregon so I know some other stuff about her). If she has that kind of background and continued to work and improve to overcome figure skating's infrastructure, I'd love her story. Seeking unethical shortcuts doesn't work for me. Okay after that...I'm not big on songs such as this. Are your shoelaces untied? No, they're not. I never played a match without checking my shoelaces. 2/10.

I think you're not cottoning to what SS is saying about her. He's not denying anything about her human flaws or sins; rather, he's emphasizing that she's a human being, not a media caricature, who was an easy target because of her background. She's not a noble figure, but she is nevertheless a victim of how the media monster chews up people who fuck up in public if they fit a profile. She's very much the anti-hero. We don't have to celebrate her to recognize how she was dehumanized, and in that she should be someone we nevertheless feel compassion. Her punishment far exceeded her crime.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 8:40pm

gkbill wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 7:46pm

Sufjan Stevens - It's pretty meh. I would challenge your assessment of Harding (I was in Oregon so I know some other stuff about her). If she has that kind of background and continued to work and improve to overcome figure skating's infrastructure, I'd love her story. Seeking unethical shortcuts doesn't work for me. Okay after that...I'm not big on songs such as this. Are your shoelaces untied? No, they're not. I never played a match without checking my shoelaces. 2/10.

I think you're not cottoning to what SS is saying about her. He's not denying anything about her human flaws or sins; rather, he's emphasizing that she's a human being, not a media caricature, who was an easy target because of her background. She's not a noble figure, but she is nevertheless a victim of how the media monster chews up people who fuck up in public if they fit a profile. She's very much the anti-hero. We don't have to celebrate her to recognize how she was dehumanized, and in that she should be someone we nevertheless feel compassion. Her punishment far exceeded her crime.

Hello,

My perspective is different than yours may be. My background includes competing for a professional athletic opportunity - a career although not a lifetime career but a culmination of a young man's dream. To cheat to obtain this in the manner she did is more impactful to me than however media portrayed her. She made a decision, she is responsible for the consequences. I understand we may disagree. You mentioned she was dehumanized. I would agree but I would suggest she dehumanized herself - beating a competitor's knee with a baseball bat (if I remember circumstances correctly) is pretty dehuman (or unhuman or inhuman - not sure about the correct term). Do you feel the media has dehumanized organized crime figures? Do you feel the media has dehumanized Trump?

gkbill wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2020, 12:12am

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 8:40pm

gkbill wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 7:46pm

Sufjan Stevens - It's pretty meh. I would challenge your assessment of Harding (I was in Oregon so I know some other stuff about her). If she has that kind of background and continued to work and improve to overcome figure skating's infrastructure, I'd love her story. Seeking unethical shortcuts doesn't work for me. Okay after that...I'm not big on songs such as this. Are your shoelaces untied? No, they're not. I never played a match without checking my shoelaces. 2/10.

I think you're not cottoning to what SS is saying about her. He's not denying anything about her human flaws or sins; rather, he's emphasizing that she's a human being, not a media caricature, who was an easy target because of her background. She's not a noble figure, but she is nevertheless a victim of how the media monster chews up people who fuck up in public if they fit a profile. She's very much the anti-hero. We don't have to celebrate her to recognize how she was dehumanized, and in that she should be someone we nevertheless feel compassion. Her punishment far exceeded her crime.

Hello,

My perspective is different than yours may be. My background includes competing for a professional athletic opportunity - a career although not a lifetime career but a culmination of a young man's dream. To cheat to obtain this in the manner she did is more impactful to me than however media portrayed her. She made a decision, she is responsible for the consequences. I understand we may disagree. You mentioned she was dehumanized. I would agree but I would suggest she dehumanized herself - beating a competitor's knee with a baseball bat (if I remember circumstances correctly) is pretty dehuman (or unhuman or inhuman - not sure about the correct term). Do you feel the media has dehumanized organized crime figures? Do you feel the media has dehumanized Trump?

That's a false equivalency given the nature of the crimes. Nobody is denying her crime or character flaws. She ruined herself. That's a very human failing, even tragic from a literary point of view. But that was lost in the media spectacle that ripped apart her life and subjected her to jeers related to her background. That's what dehumanized her—she was made into a white trash cartoon because that's what the scandal media does. That's why we should have compassion. Not because of her crimes, but because she was a persecuted for being born on the wrong side of the tracks yet playing at a game of success, one that she'd have to cheat at because that's what "those people" do. Again, it's in the tradition of folk songs to celebrate flawed human beings who get denied their humanity. None of it is to deny the guilt, but to condemn the malicious persecution.

Inder wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 2:13pm

I have only popped into this thread occasionally, but my lasting impression is that it is some kind of perverse DMV roleplay situation.

What's DMV?

Olaf wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2020, 9:36am

Inder wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 2:13pm

I have only popped into this thread occasionally, but my lasting impression is that it is some kind of perverse DMV roleplay situation.

What's DMV?

Department of Motor Vehicles

Where you go for driver's license and vehicle registration .

Known for long lines and employees who dont give a shit.

revbob wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2020, 9:39am

Olaf wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2020, 9:36am

Inder wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 2:13pm

I have only popped into this thread occasionally, but my lasting impression is that it is some kind of perverse DMV roleplay situation.

What's DMV?

Department of Motor Vehicles

Where you go for driver's license and vehicle registration .

Known for long lines and employees who dont give a shit.

Flex wrote:Doesn't it mean Dave Matthews' van?

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2020, 9:47am

revbob wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2020, 9:39am

Olaf wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2020, 9:36am

Inder wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2020, 2:13pm

I have only popped into this thread occasionally, but my lasting impression is that it is some kind of perverse DMV roleplay situation.

What's DMV?

Department of Motor Vehicles

Where you go for driver's license and vehicle registration .

Known for long lines and employees who dont give a shit.

Flex wrote:Doesn't it mean Dave Matthews' van?

Damnit Flex!!!

Blankenberge, “We”
Not a big fan of the vocals. Otherwise I thought the song was ok, enjoyed the kind of ebb and flow structure. Probably a 6/10

***

Girls in Synthesis, “We Might Not Make Tomorrow”
Didn't like that one at first, but it did grow on me a bit. Really enjoyed the chorus after the second listen. Better without the video though IMO, which just gave me nausea. 7/10

***

Sufjan Stevens, “Tonya Harding”:
Thought the vocal delivery was a bit too Simon-and-Garfunkelish. But did get grabbed by the melancholy mood. 6.5/10
***

Future Silence, “Aliens”
Great fun overall, though that slow middle part felt a bit out of place. 7/10

***

Godspeed You! Black Emperor, “Mladic”
Not what I would usually listen to, but like that 40 min. Swans song, I did enjoy the experience. When the song got going after six or seven minutes, it reminded me a bit of Plastic Surgery Disasters-era DK, which is a good thing I guess. Didn't need the three or four false endings though. 5/10

Olaf wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:17pm

Girls in Synthesis

I wonder if they took their name from Bowie lyrics (Ashes to Ashes)

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:21pm

Olaf wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:17pm

Girls in Synthesis

I wonder if they took their name from Bowie lyrics (Ashes to Ashes)

Too much of a coincidence not to.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:27pm

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:21pm

Olaf wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:17pm

Girls in Synthesis

I wonder if they took their name from Bowie lyrics (Ashes to Ashes)

Too much of a coincidence not to.

Well I know Sufjan Stevens did. "don't lean on me, man...I'm back from Sufijan Stevens"

Olaf wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:17pm

Godspeed You! Black Emperor, “Mladic”
Not what I would usually listen to, but like that 40 min. Swans song, I did enjoy the experience. When the song got going after six or seven minutes, it reminded me a bit of Plastic Surgery Disasters-era DK, which is a good thing I guess. Didn't need the three or four false endings though. 5/10

Huh. I never would have thought that. It seems like 70s hard rock to me, with a more orchestral spin. I've long thought that they sound like descendents of the Velvet Underground.

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:29pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:27pm

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:21pm

Olaf wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:17pm

Girls in Synthesis

I wonder if they took their name from Bowie lyrics (Ashes to Ashes)

Too much of a coincidence not to.

Well I know Sufjan Stevens did. "don't lean on me, man...I'm back from Sufijan Stevens"

Boo!

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:31pm

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:29pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:27pm

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:21pm

Olaf wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:17pm

Girls in Synthesis

I wonder if they took their name from Bowie lyrics (Ashes to Ashes)

Too much of a coincidence not to.

Well I know Sufjan Stevens did. "don't lean on me, man...I'm back from Sufijan Stevens"

Boo!

I never quit when I'm ahead.

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:33pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:31pm

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:29pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:27pm

tepista wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2020, 5:21pm

I wonder if they took their name from Bowie lyrics (Ashes to Ashes)

Too much of a coincidence not to.

Well I know Sufjan Stevens did. "don't lean on me, man...I'm back from Sufijan Stevens"

Boo!

I never quit when I'm ahead.

Not even when you're ahead of the dame.