I don’t know if I’m going to express this clearly, as I’m a little drunk, but it seems to me that being into Clapton is a more populist view rather than an elite one, isn’t it? Is it just aspirational in the context of the punters?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:13pmCoincidentally, I'm editing a lecture for my popular culture class this evening that involves Pierre Bourdieu, who wrote about how taste is an additional factor in status (money being the other big one). The tastes of the well-heeled emphasize form over function, technical ability over bodily pleasure. The presentation of the meal over what it tastes like. So the genuflecting before virtuosos could be seen as defaulting to those high culture attitudes, applying them to lower cultural forms like rock. Maybe it's about seeking approval from elites or maybe it's people grabbing onto what they know to establish hierarchies in their own zone.Kory wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:06pmAgreed on all counts. I wonder how much of the popularity of “virtuosos” is the Paris Hilton effect vs people sincerely thinking they are the best.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 8:57pmI'd much rather listen to the weird squawks that Andy Gill or Keith Levene would elicit from a guitar than the pantheon of rock guitarists. Not stuff that overwhelms with technical skill but novel approaches to making sounds that seize the imagination. Nothing about Clapton grabs the imagination.Kory wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 8:46pmPeople are so boring. Hendrix and Clapton are so often touted as the Greatest Guitarists That Ever Lived, so people always lean to them in those kind of arguments. It's self-fulfilling. They're technically good, not even really GREAT, but on top of that, they just aren't that interesting.dave202 wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:42amI was in a pub a few years ago and someone started a conversation about the ultimate band line-up and it quickly came down to arguments about Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton on guitar, and that sort of stuff. Names were getting bandied about, arguments beginning and then I said, "I'm only playing this game if I can get Ian Stewart on piano." There was quite a consensus of opinion for someone hidden from view as a musician.
Rockin' Songs with Piano
Re: Rockin' Songs with Piano
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
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Re: Rockin' Songs with Piano
Depends on the group. If you're a Jan Wenner kind of guy, Clapton isn't populist at all. He's the reason they think a RNRHOF is necessary, to establish a canon of rock, stuff that is clearly elite. But if the group is wider society, Clapton, as a rock musician, can still be populist and a bit culturally unsavoury. It comes down to whether you ought to like an artist, to work to be worthy of what they offer. I have little use for liking some music or musicians because of their historical status. I can respect them for that, but if it doesn't appeal to me aesthetically, I won't self-flagellate. As much as I like hassling Heston, I think he's got the right attitude in not caring about what doesn't appeal to him. I can rag on him for being too conventional, but he's right in not feeling some kind of obligation to be “better.”Kory wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:21pmI don’t know if I’m going to express this clearly, as I’m a little drunk, but it seems to me that being into Clapton is a more populist view rather than an elite one, isn’t it? Is it just aspirational in the context of the punters?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:13pmCoincidentally, I'm editing a lecture for my popular culture class this evening that involves Pierre Bourdieu, who wrote about how taste is an additional factor in status (money being the other big one). The tastes of the well-heeled emphasize form over function, technical ability over bodily pleasure. The presentation of the meal over what it tastes like. So the genuflecting before virtuosos could be seen as defaulting to those high culture attitudes, applying them to lower cultural forms like rock. Maybe it's about seeking approval from elites or maybe it's people grabbing onto what they know to establish hierarchies in their own zone.Kory wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:06pmAgreed on all counts. I wonder how much of the popularity of “virtuosos” is the Paris Hilton effect vs people sincerely thinking they are the best.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 8:57pmI'd much rather listen to the weird squawks that Andy Gill or Keith Levene would elicit from a guitar than the pantheon of rock guitarists. Not stuff that overwhelms with technical skill but novel approaches to making sounds that seize the imagination. Nothing about Clapton grabs the imagination.Kory wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 8:46pm
People are so boring. Hendrix and Clapton are so often touted as the Greatest Guitarists That Ever Lived, so people always lean to them in those kind of arguments. It's self-fulfilling. They're technically good, not even really GREAT, but on top of that, they just aren't that interesting.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Rockin' Songs with Piano
This is very dangerous territory.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:46pmDepends on the group. If you're a Jan Wenner kind of guy, Clapton isn't populist at all. He's the reason they think a RNRHOF is necessary, to establish a canon of rock, stuff that is clearly elite. But if the group is wider society, Clapton, as a rock musician, can still be populist and a bit culturally unsavoury. It comes down to whether you ought to like an artist, to work to be worthy of what they offer. I have little use for liking some music or musicians because of their historical status. I can respect them for that, but if it doesn't appeal to me aesthetically, I won't self-flagellate. As much as I like hassling Heston, I think he's got the right attitude in not caring about what doesn't appeal to him. I can rag on him for being too conventional, but he's right in not feeling some kind of obligation to be “better.”Kory wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:21pmI don’t know if I’m going to express this clearly, as I’m a little drunk, but it seems to me that being into Clapton is a more populist view rather than an elite one, isn’t it? Is it just aspirational in the context of the punters?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:13pmCoincidentally, I'm editing a lecture for my popular culture class this evening that involves Pierre Bourdieu, who wrote about how taste is an additional factor in status (money being the other big one). The tastes of the well-heeled emphasize form over function, technical ability over bodily pleasure. The presentation of the meal over what it tastes like. So the genuflecting before virtuosos could be seen as defaulting to those high culture attitudes, applying them to lower cultural forms like rock. Maybe it's about seeking approval from elites or maybe it's people grabbing onto what they know to establish hierarchies in their own zone.Kory wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 9:06pmAgreed on all counts. I wonder how much of the popularity of “virtuosos” is the Paris Hilton effect vs people sincerely thinking they are the best.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 8:57pm
I'd much rather listen to the weird squawks that Andy Gill or Keith Levene would elicit from a guitar than the pantheon of rock guitarists. Not stuff that overwhelms with technical skill but novel approaches to making sounds that seize the imagination. Nothing about Clapton grabs the imagination.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Dr. Medulla
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- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
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Re: Rockin' Songs with Piano
By no means a fan of Ben Folds Five, but I do dig this one.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Rockin' Songs with Piano
I love the piano riff in McVicar