Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 5:51pmHas any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Ranking the Discographies
Re: Ranking the Discographies
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
Re: Ranking the Discographies
To be clear Im not opposed to a band/artist growing/experimenting and if they want go for that brass ring and achieve high levels of commercial success but chances are you will alienate people at the same time. The "Black Album " or whatever one wants to call it was their Wonderbread.
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.matedog wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:02pmMetallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 5:51pmHas any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Ranking the Discographies
TRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pmIn terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.matedog wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:02pmMetallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 5:51pmHas any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:09pmTRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pmIn terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.matedog wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:02pmMetallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 5:51pmHas any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Ranking the Discographies
He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pmFor some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:09pmTRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pmIn terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.matedog wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:02pmMetallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 5:51pmHas any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
It's hard to say. Justice was a great record. The Black Album was also solid. This might sound cliched, but I think they got derailed by the whole grunge wave that hit. Their sound changed with Load. They lost the speed and aggression that had made then thrash gods and instead we got an LP that sounded sludgy and heavy in the wrong way. I think that was the moment where they went from being front runners to being also rans, trying to catch up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pmFor some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:09pmTRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pmIn terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.matedog wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:02pmMetallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 5:51pmHas any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
I saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:57pmHe died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pmFor some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:09pmTRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pmIn terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
Re: Ranking the Discographies
I saw them at Outside Lands in like 2012 and they were fantastic then. I never thought I needed to hear Enter Sandman ever again, but it was amazing that night (along with pretty much everything).WestwayKid wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:00pmI saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:57pmHe died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pmFor some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:09pmTRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
Re: Ranking the Discographies
They came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.WestwayKid wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:00pmI saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:57pmHe died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pmFor some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:09pmTRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
Bob Rock was a big part of the Black Album. I've always thought they figured they'd taken the drawn out progressive thrash metal as far as they could. Rock turned them into a good rock band. I don't hate that album. I don't love it. It's not awful. They would get awful eventually.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:05pmTo be clear Im not opposed to a band/artist growing/experimenting and if they want go for that brass ring and achieve high levels of commercial success but chances are you will alienate people at the same time. The "Black Album " or whatever one wants to call it was their Wonderbread.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
Perhaps. Grunge fucked up a lot of established bands. But I think the fundamental problem was that they reacted to the Black album with "Cool!" instead of, "Oh fuck." Instead of running away, they embraced it all.WestwayKid wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:59pmIt's hard to say. Justice was a great record. The Black Album was also solid. This might sound cliched, but I think they got derailed by the whole grunge wave that hit. Their sound changed with Load. They lost the speed and aggression that had made then thrash gods and instead we got an LP that sounded sludgy and heavy in the wrong way. I think that was the moment where they went from being front runners to being also rans, trying to catch up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pmFor some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:09pmTRUTH!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:07pmIn terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
I've never been a metal guy. I appreciate some of it. I grew up with friends who were big metalheads. As I mentioned on my Stranger Things post, the punks and metalheads were kindred spirits in high school. I did like Metallica and a few other bands, but I never got the genre.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:07pmThey came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.WestwayKid wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:00pmI saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:57pmHe died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pmFor some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
Re: Ranking the Discographies
Black Sabbath was my first musical love and the Clash turned me on to punk so I was following both for a bit but I never cared much for the more extreme metal nor the commercial stuff so I eventually stopped looking for anything new in metal. I try every so often but nothing really grabs me.WestwayKid wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:10pmI've never been a metal guy. I appreciate some of it. I grew up with friends who were big metalheads. As I mentioned on my Stranger Things post, the punks and metalheads were kindred spirits in high school. I did like Metallica and a few other bands, but I never got the genre.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:07pmThey came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.WestwayKid wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:00pmI saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:57pmHe died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
When I turned away from metal, I actually turned to folk, which I saw as more akin at least lyrically to punk.
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Re: Ranking the Discographies
I feel bad Tom's not around for this discussion of one of his fave bands!revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:23pmBlack Sabbath was my first musical love and the Clash turned me on to punk so I was following both for a bit but I never cared much for the more extreme metal nor the commercial stuff so I eventually stopped looking for anything new in metal. I try every so often but nothing really grabs me.WestwayKid wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:10pmI've never been a metal guy. I appreciate some of it. I grew up with friends who were big metalheads. As I mentioned on my Stranger Things post, the punks and metalheads were kindred spirits in high school. I did like Metallica and a few other bands, but I never got the genre.revbob wrote: ↑07 Jul 2022, 7:07pmThey came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.
When I turned away from metal, I actually turned to folk, which I saw as more akin at least lyrically to punk.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble