Ranking the Discographies

General music discussion.
matedog
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 5:51pm
Has any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

revbob
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by revbob »

To be clear Im not opposed to a band/artist growing/experimenting and if they want go for that brass ring and achieve high levels of commercial success but chances are you will alienate people at the same time. The "Black Album " or whatever one wants to call it was their Wonderbread.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 5:51pm
Has any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

revbob
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 5:51pm
Has any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 5:51pm
Has any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

revbob
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 5:51pm
Has any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.

WestwayKid
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by WestwayKid »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 5:51pm
Has any originally cult band that achieved mainstream success been so wrecked by it? I'm struggling to think of a better example.
Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
It's hard to say. Justice was a great record. The Black Album was also solid. This might sound cliched, but I think they got derailed by the whole grunge wave that hit. Their sound changed with Load. They lost the speed and aggression that had made then thrash gods and instead we got an LP that sounded sludgy and heavy in the wrong way. I think that was the moment where they went from being front runners to being also rans, trying to catch up.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

WestwayKid
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by WestwayKid »

revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:02pm


Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.
I saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

matedog
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:00pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm


In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.
I saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.
I saw them at Outside Lands in like 2012 and they were fantastic then. I never thought I needed to hear Enter Sandman ever again, but it was amazing that night (along with pretty much everything).
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

revbob
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by revbob »

WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:00pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm


In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.
I saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.
They came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.

WestwayKid
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by WestwayKid »

revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:05pm
To be clear Im not opposed to a band/artist growing/experimenting and if they want go for that brass ring and achieve high levels of commercial success but chances are you will alienate people at the same time. The "Black Album " or whatever one wants to call it was their Wonderbread.
Bob Rock was a big part of the Black Album. I've always thought they figured they'd taken the drawn out progressive thrash metal as far as they could. Rock turned them into a good rock band. I don't hate that album. I don't love it. It's not awful. They would get awful eventually.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by Dr. Medulla »

WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:59pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:07pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:02pm


Metallica? I wouldn't really have considered them "wrecked by success." I mean they more or less stuck together, released successful albums and remain a big tour draw.
In terms of rep, tho? They have zero cool attached to them and serious metal fans loathe what they've done since Justice.
TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
It's hard to say. Justice was a great record. The Black Album was also solid. This might sound cliched, but I think they got derailed by the whole grunge wave that hit. Their sound changed with Load. They lost the speed and aggression that had made then thrash gods and instead we got an LP that sounded sludgy and heavy in the wrong way. I think that was the moment where they went from being front runners to being also rans, trying to catch up.
Perhaps. Grunge fucked up a lot of established bands. But I think the fundamental problem was that they reacted to the Black album with "Cool!" instead of, "Oh fuck." Instead of running away, they embraced it all.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

WestwayKid
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by WestwayKid »

revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:07pm
WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:00pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:09pm


TRUTH!

Wasnt it shortly after where they sort of imploded too? Cliff Burton was a key piece of this band too and losing him had a serious detrimental affect
For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.
I saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.
They came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.
I've never been a metal guy. I appreciate some of it. I grew up with friends who were big metalheads. As I mentioned on my Stranger Things post, the punks and metalheads were kindred spirits in high school. I did like Metallica and a few other bands, but I never got the genre.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

revbob
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by revbob »

WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:10pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:07pm
WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:00pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:27pm


For some reason I thought he died before MoP, but it was after that record. Maybe his death was impactful in the long term?
He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.
I saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.
They came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.
I've never been a metal guy. I appreciate some of it. I grew up with friends who were big metalheads. As I mentioned on my Stranger Things post, the punks and metalheads were kindred spirits in high school. I did like Metallica and a few other bands, but I never got the genre.
Black Sabbath was my first musical love and the Clash turned me on to punk so I was following both for a bit but I never cared much for the more extreme metal nor the commercial stuff so I eventually stopped looking for anything new in metal. I try every so often but nothing really grabs me.

When I turned away from metal, I actually turned to folk, which I saw as more akin at least lyrically to punk.

WestwayKid
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Re: Ranking the Discographies

Post by WestwayKid »

revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:23pm
WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:10pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:07pm
WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 7:00pm
revbob wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 6:57pm


He died on the MoP tour in Europe. I saw them before that in NYC. He contributed to some of the songs on And Justice..., not sure how much (hey google ...) but obviously was not involved in the recording.
I saw them on the Black Album tour and they were fantastic.
They came to VT on the Justice tour and I had a good time at that show. I bought the Black album and gave it away to a friend's kid. Ive mostly ignored any new metal that came after that.
I've never been a metal guy. I appreciate some of it. I grew up with friends who were big metalheads. As I mentioned on my Stranger Things post, the punks and metalheads were kindred spirits in high school. I did like Metallica and a few other bands, but I never got the genre.
Black Sabbath was my first musical love and the Clash turned me on to punk so I was following both for a bit but I never cared much for the more extreme metal nor the commercial stuff so I eventually stopped looking for anything new in metal. I try every so often but nothing really grabs me.

When I turned away from metal, I actually turned to folk, which I saw as more akin at least lyrically to punk.
I feel bad Tom's not around for this discussion of one of his fave bands!
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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