Does Contemporary Music Suck?

General music discussion.
matedog
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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by matedog »

Silent Majority wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 5:42am
matedog wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:12am
Silent Majority wrote:
02 Aug 2022, 6:51pm
Of course, there is without a doubt a surplus of more great music being recorded and disseminated than ever in our history, but, as others have pointed out, the chances of any of that reaching anything beyond the cyber equivalent of a local audience at this stage are close to nil, thanks to the monopolisation of the huge companies and the at least semi-conscious decision to homogenise what was on the airways for further, easier to track, profits.
That seems counterintuitive to me. Music is waaaaay more accessible than it ever has been. Perhaps the old formats like radio are more homogenized, but the listener has more control than they ever had before with access to everything with a click vs before where you had like radio and MTV to hear a single a record company was pushing. I don’t really buy your position.
I think you overestimate the extent to which people will, as a whole, a) be inclined to, and/or b) have the time to, seek out the new and interesting. As ever, most people will just content themselves with what is spoonfed to them by corporations via radio, TV and the top trending videos on YouTube. When was the last time a low-budget maverick broke through into those mediums?
I think what you are getting at is similar to the echo chamber aspect of news intake that the internet ultimately brought. People have access to so much more than they ever have, but are more easily able to intake only views that they want to hear. A similar argument could be made for music.

I think there is an important difference as music is a living, evolving format that is really perpetuated and developed by the young. Young people create and intake new music, so the need to develop and seek out new music is something that is less limited by corporate interests than it used to be.

To answer your question, "When was the last time a low-budget maverick broke through into those mediums?" Desiigner's "Panda" and Lil Nas X' "Old Town Road" come to mind, both of which were soundcloud tracks that took off. Which further exemplifies alternate music sources (soundcloud) that are way less (if not) beholden to record company interests. In fact, record companies are as unnecessary now as they have ever been to get exposure via youtube, tiktok, soundcloud, etc.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

One of my favourite books on punk, Ryan Moore's Sells Like Teen Spirit, looks at, in part, the boom-bust cycle of punk and resistant music scenes. Kids pissed off with the mainstream dreck create something different, more real, more authentic to their worldview and experiences. It's great, something to bond over and be inspired by, maybe even fuel political action. But success attracts the attention of the record industry, which poaches bands, encourages stylistic knock-offs, attracts come-lately trendy fans, and kills the scene because it's no longer authentic. It's been contaminated. It happens over and over with only slight modifications. Moore argues that we need to quit getting hung up on authenticity/inauthenticity because that sets up a fight against capitalism/commercialization, and we don't win that fight. That demand for purity or autonomy just won't be won so we allow what we love to seem tainted and we get jaundiced. That rejection of superficiality ironically makes us all hipsters, following and rejecting trends. So quit looking at the production side of things so much—was this record created and released under proper resistant conditions?—and think more about the consumption side—what can we do with these records? do they still offer inspiration or comfort or political fuel? Moore is going with the old Marxist hope that the capitalists will sell us they rope we will use to hang them. There's value in his seeking a way out of our cycle of cynicism over the quest for authenticity and autonomy, but I'm a little wary that we surrender the production terrain. The nature and reason for artistic creation does matter, and closer proximity to corporate power is a reason to be wary. The beast will eat you up so ignore it at your peril.
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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by eumaas »

gkbill wrote:
02 Aug 2022, 10:02pm
Hello,

I am hesitant to comment although I have read all posts thus far and considered them. I'll put forward an idea why contemporary music is disappointing (a better word for it to my thinking and feeling). It is far too easy to make music today. I am not a musician - beyond a few months plunking away on a bass. A few months ago, I was playing around with an ipad (I'm not an apple person so it definitely was playing around). Within a few minutes on garage band, I had a listenable song. It wasn't good but it was passable as music. It takes slightly longer to make than play. Not all contemporary artists may fall prey to this but I would think many do - write it, play it, get it posted quickly. When I write, I proofread several times to make sure there are no errors, my meaning is clear, and the quality of my work is good. There are contemporary artist who do so but I'd wager there's a good lot that does not.

As stated above, I'm not a musician but I couldn't help but feel there was no reflection or thorough consideration of what I had done. I'd love to be in a room with real musicians arguing about what sounds better or you should play this not that. I'd love to watch an artist play a song over and over again while watching them think "Is it right? Is it good enough? Does this reflect what I'm feeling/thinking?". Music created through these processes with that amount of time and thought is much more real (sorry to be so intangible).

You can argue "Well, how much time did the Ramones spend on a track?" but I can almost guarantee they spent more time than I did. Without time, effort, consideration, and reflection, quality will be lacking. I don't care for country - but can respect artists who put time and thought into their work - and I can recognize that.

There is good new music (check out my packet of three posts!) - there just a lot more weaker (both in terms of quality and effort) music.
Just to this, it's still on the composer, not the gear. My process is highly iterative—if anything it's even harder to finish a composition as I could tweak it endlessly. I don't think having to play the music live makes a difference. Collaboration is a different beast to solo composition, but doesn't guarantee it's going through that many passes either. Plus, there are many stories of songs arriving fully formed in the first draft and not really having any iterative development before recording.

I'm sure we've all heard a band where the songs could've used another draft. Couple tracks on Sandinista! come to mind...
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eumaas
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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by eumaas »

If anything, by not having to perform the music live, I can do stuff outside my technical means (see my long post on the previous page of the thread). I don't have to settle for whatever chord shapes I can manage on a guitar etc.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:13pm
If anything, by not having to perform the music live, I can do stuff outside my technical means (see my long post on the previous page of the thread). I don't have to settle for whatever chord shapes I can manage on a guitar etc.
I remember Moby making that kind of argument, that traditional instruments are limited in what they can accomplish and the dexterity of the musician's limbs/digits. Computers and synthesizers open up the artist's imagination closer to actualization.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

eumaas
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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:24pm
eumaas wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:13pm
If anything, by not having to perform the music live, I can do stuff outside my technical means (see my long post on the previous page of the thread). I don't have to settle for whatever chord shapes I can manage on a guitar etc.
I remember Moby making that kind of argument, that traditional instruments are limited in what they can accomplish and the dexterity of the musician's limbs/digits. Computers and synthesizers open up the artist's imagination closer to actualization.
I think Gary Numan said something similar too.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by JennyB »

eumaas wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:31pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:24pm
eumaas wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:13pm
If anything, by not having to perform the music live, I can do stuff outside my technical means (see my long post on the previous page of the thread). I don't have to settle for whatever chord shapes I can manage on a guitar etc.
I remember Moby making that kind of argument, that traditional instruments are limited in what they can accomplish and the dexterity of the musician's limbs/digits. Computers and synthesizers open up the artist's imagination closer to actualization.
I think Gary Numan said something similar too.
And Gary Numan puts on a hell of a live show.
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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Flex wrote:
02 Aug 2022, 3:28pm
Kory wrote:
02 Aug 2022, 3:27pm
Flex wrote:
02 Aug 2022, 3:16pm
Kory wrote:
02 Aug 2022, 2:56pm
I can't relate at all to blanket statements about hating contemporary pop music. You've listened to the entirety of it? You've ensured that you've listened to each song with an open mind rather than going in knowing you're going to hate it? It's really weird.

I mean, it means already hating the new Beyonce album before even hearing it, which is completely mind-boggling.
Is Beyonce playing third wave ska on the new album? If not...
Have you already forsaken the fourth wave?
Fourth wave is back to being underground, not a charting pop concern.
The Interrupters have had chart success.

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:14am
I think you can see a parallel here with the nature of the internet, availability of information, and discourse. There is huge magnitudes of greater availability to people who wish to pursue critical evaluation of most any topic and a massive pool of participants who can debate. It should be a golden age of rationalism. Yet discourse as coarsened and large swaths of people all over the spectrum are content to dwell in the echo chamber of Facebook, Twitter, etc. So, yes, there is more music available and of greater diversity and creativity, yet what the mainstream gravitates to—whether they pushed or pulled to it is a separate, but no less vital question—is anything but. I've mentioned before that I've regrettably had to concede more ground to the dire predictions of Frankfurt school Marxists who saw popular culture as a pacifying weapon of capitalism, manufacturing docile drones who not only can't escape but don't want to. They were just premature in talking about the 1940s and 50s that way, but it's hard not to see that larger and larger numbers of people are going for blander and blander, more and more uncritical.
100%

Shitty pop music and marvel movies are the panacea for late stage capitalism.

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Flex wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:14am
I think you can see a parallel here with the nature of the internet, availability of information, and discourse. There is huge magnitudes of greater availability to people who wish to pursue critical evaluation of most any topic and a massive pool of participants who can debate. It should be a golden age of rationalism. Yet discourse as coarsened and large swaths of people all over the spectrum are content to dwell in the echo chamber of Facebook, Twitter, etc. So, yes, there is more music available and of greater diversity and creativity, yet what the mainstream gravitates to—whether they pushed or pulled to it is a separate, but no less vital question—is anything but. I've mentioned before that I've regrettably had to concede more ground to the dire predictions of Frankfurt school Marxists who saw popular culture as a pacifying weapon of capitalism, manufacturing docile drones who not only can't escape but don't want to. They were just premature in talking about the 1940s and 50s that way, but it's hard not to see that larger and larger numbers of people are going for blander and blander, more and more uncritical.
The internet's app-ification, where all of our engagement now happens in cordoned, algorithmically-approved manners to maximize profit and minimize individual exploration and creativity is a perfect illustration of the trend. There was a brief moment when the internet seemed like the wild west and there were no gatekeepers. But the chances are that almost every aspect of your day online is now regulated and directed by for-profit corporations who have carefully designed ways to control what you see, hear and react to.

You don't just see a tweet or hear a new song on Spotify or whatever by happenstance. You're in those company apps and they're deciding what to serve up to you. Sure, some people can be adventurous and explore or alter the nature of how they're presented info, but the whole point is that everything in the system that's been created resists that.
And an alarming amount of these companies have spooks in key positions, including Reddit.

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by gkbill »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 11:52pm
Flex wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:14am
I think you can see a parallel here with the nature of the internet, availability of information, and discourse. There is huge magnitudes of greater availability to people who wish to pursue critical evaluation of most any topic and a massive pool of participants who can debate. It should be a golden age of rationalism. Yet discourse as coarsened and large swaths of people all over the spectrum are content to dwell in the echo chamber of Facebook, Twitter, etc. So, yes, there is more music available and of greater diversity and creativity, yet what the mainstream gravitates to—whether they pushed or pulled to it is a separate, but no less vital question—is anything but. I've mentioned before that I've regrettably had to concede more ground to the dire predictions of Frankfurt school Marxists who saw popular culture as a pacifying weapon of capitalism, manufacturing docile drones who not only can't escape but don't want to. They were just premature in talking about the 1940s and 50s that way, but it's hard not to see that larger and larger numbers of people are going for blander and blander, more and more uncritical.
The internet's app-ification, where all of our engagement now happens in cordoned, algorithmically-approved manners to maximize profit and minimize individual exploration and creativity is a perfect illustration of the trend. There was a brief moment when the internet seemed like the wild west and there were no gatekeepers. But the chances are that almost every aspect of your day online is now regulated and directed by for-profit corporations who have carefully designed ways to control what you see, hear and react to.

You don't just see a tweet or hear a new song on Spotify or whatever by happenstance. You're in those company apps and they're deciding what to serve up to you. Sure, some people can be adventurous and explore or alter the nature of how they're presented info, but the whole point is that everything in the system that's been created resists that.
And an alarming amount of these companies have spooks in key positions, including Reddit.
Hello,

I'm not sure what you mean by spooks.

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

gkbill wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 1:19pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 11:52pm
Flex wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:14am
I think you can see a parallel here with the nature of the internet, availability of information, and discourse. There is huge magnitudes of greater availability to people who wish to pursue critical evaluation of most any topic and a massive pool of participants who can debate. It should be a golden age of rationalism. Yet discourse as coarsened and large swaths of people all over the spectrum are content to dwell in the echo chamber of Facebook, Twitter, etc. So, yes, there is more music available and of greater diversity and creativity, yet what the mainstream gravitates to—whether they pushed or pulled to it is a separate, but no less vital question—is anything but. I've mentioned before that I've regrettably had to concede more ground to the dire predictions of Frankfurt school Marxists who saw popular culture as a pacifying weapon of capitalism, manufacturing docile drones who not only can't escape but don't want to. They were just premature in talking about the 1940s and 50s that way, but it's hard not to see that larger and larger numbers of people are going for blander and blander, more and more uncritical.
The internet's app-ification, where all of our engagement now happens in cordoned, algorithmically-approved manners to maximize profit and minimize individual exploration and creativity is a perfect illustration of the trend. There was a brief moment when the internet seemed like the wild west and there were no gatekeepers. But the chances are that almost every aspect of your day online is now regulated and directed by for-profit corporations who have carefully designed ways to control what you see, hear and react to.

You don't just see a tweet or hear a new song on Spotify or whatever by happenstance. You're in those company apps and they're deciding what to serve up to you. Sure, some people can be adventurous and explore or alter the nature of how they're presented info, but the whole point is that everything in the system that's been created resists that.
And an alarming amount of these companies have spooks in key positions, including Reddit.
Hello,

I'm not sure what you mean by spooks.
Spies or agents provocateur.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Mark^Bastard »

gkbill wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 1:19pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 11:52pm
Flex wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 8:14am
I think you can see a parallel here with the nature of the internet, availability of information, and discourse. There is huge magnitudes of greater availability to people who wish to pursue critical evaluation of most any topic and a massive pool of participants who can debate. It should be a golden age of rationalism. Yet discourse as coarsened and large swaths of people all over the spectrum are content to dwell in the echo chamber of Facebook, Twitter, etc. So, yes, there is more music available and of greater diversity and creativity, yet what the mainstream gravitates to—whether they pushed or pulled to it is a separate, but no less vital question—is anything but. I've mentioned before that I've regrettably had to concede more ground to the dire predictions of Frankfurt school Marxists who saw popular culture as a pacifying weapon of capitalism, manufacturing docile drones who not only can't escape but don't want to. They were just premature in talking about the 1940s and 50s that way, but it's hard not to see that larger and larger numbers of people are going for blander and blander, more and more uncritical.
The internet's app-ification, where all of our engagement now happens in cordoned, algorithmically-approved manners to maximize profit and minimize individual exploration and creativity is a perfect illustration of the trend. There was a brief moment when the internet seemed like the wild west and there were no gatekeepers. But the chances are that almost every aspect of your day online is now regulated and directed by for-profit corporations who have carefully designed ways to control what you see, hear and react to.

You don't just see a tweet or hear a new song on Spotify or whatever by happenstance. You're in those company apps and they're deciding what to serve up to you. Sure, some people can be adventurous and explore or alter the nature of how they're presented info, but the whole point is that everything in the system that's been created resists that.
And an alarming amount of these companies have spooks in key positions, including Reddit.
Hello,

I'm not sure what you mean by spooks.
"ex" government agents.

For example: https://mronline.org/2021/06/14/jessica ... -to-do-it/

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Howard Beale »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 6:11pm
There is a shit ton of good music being created by kids in their 20s. What gets played on the radio—i.e., mainstream—is what the corporate music industry is promoting. Not everything has an equal chance of getting airplay. That's a core truth that has to be understood. So the problem is what gets hyped and promoted, not what is being created. The crapfest that is mainstream music is not an artistic problem, but one of industry.
I think this pretty much sums it up. The answer to the original question is really more of a both/and than an either/or. It can be both true that there is still great music being made and that the music being most marketed to the masses is becoming increasingly bland and formulaic: http://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scie ... s-the-same
Scientists Just Discovered Why All Pop Music Sounds Exactly the Same

Culture
By Tom Barnes
1.7.2015

Anyone who listens to pop radio regularly has probably been hit with this realization at one point or another – a ton of pop music sounds very similar. It seems like grandpa logic, but a growing body of research confirms what we all suspect: Pop music is actually getting more and more homogeneous. And now, thanks to a new study, they know why.

A new study, surveying more than 500,000 albums, shows simplicity sells best across all music genres. As something becomes popular, it necessarily dumbs down and becomes more formulaic. So if you're wondering why the top 10 features two Meghan Trainor songs that sound exactly the same and two Taylor Swift songs that sound exactly the same, scientists think they finally have the answer.

The study: In a recent study, researchers from the Medical University of Vienna in Austria studied 15 genres and 374 subgenres. They rated the genre's complexity over time — measured by researchers in purely quantitative aspects, such as timbre and acoustical variations — and compared that to the genre's sales. They found that in nearly every case, as genres increase in popularity, they also become more generic.

"This can be interpreted," the researchers write, "as music becoming increasingly formulaic in terms of instrumentation under increasing sales numbers due to a tendency to popularize music styles with low variety and musicians with similar skills."

So music all starts simplifying and sounding similar. Not only that, but complexity actually starts turning people off of musical styles. Alternative rock, experimental and hip-hop music are all more complex now than when they began, and each has seen their sales plummet. Startlingly few genres have retained high levels of musical complexity over their histories, according to the researchers. And ones that have — folk, folk rock and experimental music — aren't exactly big earners. Unless, of course, they fit into the Mumford & Sons/Lumineers pop-folk mold.

The findings are somewhat intuitive. Of course a genre will sell more once it forms an established sound that listeners can identify with. But the science is only proving the now-dominant truth of pop music: Record companies are only comfortable promoting things they already know will sell. And they know that now better than ever.

Record labels are pouring resources into data analysis tools, using them to predict which songs will be the next breakout hit. According to Derek Thompson at the Atlantic, executives can use services like Shazam and HitPredictor to see which songs will break out next with surprising accuracy.

Once a worthy song or artist emerges from the data, radio conglomerates have mechanisms in place to ensure that music will connect with an audience. Clear Channel's "On the Verge" program is one of the most talked about. When a song is dubbed "On the Verge," every station in the Clear Channel network has to play it at least 150 times — blasting it to a potential network of about 245 million listeners. This undoubtedly helped launch Iggy Azalea to incredible new heights of success, which she may not have otherwise earned with her talent alone. And her success, in turn, is spawning legions of hip-hop pop imitators whom labels will choose to blast out because their chance at success has been proven. It's a cycle.

The study is right — and it's more of a problem now than ever. Iggy Azalea may be the harbinger of hip-hop's eventual homogenization, but she is only a pawn of the larger media circuit. As reported by the Atlantic, "Top 40 stations last year played the 10 biggest songs almost twice as much as they did a decade ago."

Human beings crave familiarity. Numerous psychological studies show that people choose songs they're familiar with over songs that more closely match their reported music tastes. Our somewhat manipulative music industry, which chooses familiar-sounding music and pushes it to listeners in massive quantities, knows well how to capitalize on those cravings. Genres standardize over time as a way to plug into this psychology. And then we hear the same songs, over and over again.

But there's a point at which that becomes tired, and the space opens for something revolutionary — something that totally shifts the way we think about music. If we're aware of these sort of trends and practices, we can better resist what they do to our music. We can champion the genuinely original and leave aside the derivative. We can make a better musical culture.
http://www.journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255



It's interesting that the soundtrack to Stranger Things resonating with younger audiences was brought up in support of the Contemporary-Music-Does-Suck side of the argument. The non-original music from that show is mostly from the '80s—there was certainly no shortage of absolutely abysmal music topping the charts back then. With the benefit of hindsight, the producers were able to go back over that decade's popular songs and select the best it had to offer. That will likely someday be possible with this era as well.

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Re: Does Contemporary Music Suck?

Post by Marky Dread »

But what really is contemporary music?
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