January 1st 1983

General music discussion.
Low Down Low
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Low Down Low »

laxman wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 4:20pm
Low Down Low wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 9:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 7:50am
Low Down Low wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 7:27am
Love the Joboxers. A few personal favs from '83:

Orange Juice - Rip It Up
Yazoo - Nobody's Diary
Robert Wyatt - Shipbuilding
Blancmange - Waves
Flash and the Pan - Waiting on a Train
Joan Armatrading - Drop the Pilot

Personally, I'd put the "year the music died" a good bit later, or the year I just lost interest in chart music. Fact is U2 were still half decent in 1983 and much as I tried, i just couldn't hate the Wham! Rap.
"Rip It Up" and "Shipbuilding" are fantastic! I still have that fold-out tri sleeve 7" of "Shipbuilding .
Definitely my pick of the bunch. One of Elvis' very best for me and while Wyatts vocals are a bit quirky, i think they really suit that song. And if there's a genre called "pure pop", then Rip it Up is the apogee for me. Every note, every vocal twitch is a sheer sonic delight.


Orange Juice were booked to play a summer ball at my college. They were booked before Rip It Up was a hit, so probably weren't getting much money for it. Rip It Up was then a hit before they were due to come. But they honoured the commitment, which has left me impressed ever since. I'm sure a lot of bands would have told us where to stick it.
Nice story and from what i have seen and heard of Edwyn Collins over the years, it doesn't surprise me one bit. Fantastic bloke who is a model on how to cope with adversity and a lot of his solo output is real solid stuff.

Low Down Low
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Low Down Low »

Could this qualify as rap or hip hop in any way?


Marky Dread
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 3:29pm
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 3:12pm
I think The Last Poets from the late 60s can lay claim to owning Rap.
I lean towards Jamaican toasters (if you're going to privilege any one influence over the other) given that hip hop's founding DJs had strong Jamaican roots.
Yes I see that greater influence for sure. The whole vibe is heavily lent to this.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
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The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Marky Dread
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

Low Down Low wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 4:25pm
Could this qualify as rap or hip hop in any way?

I would personally say it's more in the vein of Doo Wop.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 4:29pm
Low Down Low wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 4:25pm
Could this qualify as rap or hip hop in any way?

I would personally say it's more in the vein of Doo Wop.
Yeah, kind of a transition between gospel and doo wop.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

matedog
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by matedog »

There's a lot of pre-hip hop stuff that happens to resemble rapping - rhythmic vocal, barely or a-melodic. However, there isn't a direct or even indirect connection to it. The roots are clearly defined as Doc has noted - Jamaican immigrant culture in the south Bronx with DJ/party culture in the 70s. The origins are multi-faceted, but often cites Kool Herc inventing the "break" using two turntables as the main starting point. Rap didn't even develop until a few years after as part of the toasting aspect of DJing/MCing as we've discussed.

Anything before this that resembles "rapping" is coincidental and unrelated to the development of rap/hip-hop.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Marky Dread
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

matedog wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 5:09pm
There's a lot of pre-hip hop stuff that happens to resemble rapping - rhythmic vocal, barely or a-melodic. However, there isn't a direct or even indirect connection to it. The roots are clearly defined as Doc has noted - Jamaican immigrant culture in the south Bronx with DJ/party culture in the 70s. The origins are multi-faceted, but often cites Kool Herc inventing the "break" using two turntables as the main starting point. Rap didn't even develop until a few years after as part of the toasting aspect of DJing/MCing as we've discussed.

Anything before this that resembles "rapping" is coincidental and unrelated to the development of rap/hip-hop.
Count Matchuki has to be considered the inspiration in my book.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Heston
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Heston »

Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 2:55pm
Duck Rock came out in '83 so I'm pretty sure Heston would be fine concluding the history of hip hop right there.
Well yeah. It had peaked.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 7:28pm
Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 2:55pm
Duck Rock came out in '83 so I'm pretty sure Heston would be fine concluding the history of hip hop right there.
Well yeah. It had peaked.
C'mon guys stop it. All this scratchin' is making me itch!
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

gkbill
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by gkbill »

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 12:24am
Heston wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 7:28pm
Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 2:55pm
Duck Rock came out in '83 so I'm pretty sure Heston would be fine concluding the history of hip hop right there.
Well yeah. It had peaked.
C'mon guys stop it. All this scratchin' is making me itch!
Hello,

I'll get my coat.........'round the outside.

Marky Dread
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

gkbill wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 9:06am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 12:24am
Heston wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 7:28pm
Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 2:55pm
Duck Rock came out in '83 so I'm pretty sure Heston would be fine concluding the history of hip hop right there.
Well yeah. It had peaked.
C'mon guys stop it. All this scratchin' is making me itch!
Hello,

I'll get my coat.........'round the outside.
Listen gk don't forget to do-si-do your partner.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Silent Majority
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Silent Majority »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 4:46pm
Marky Dread wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 4:29pm
Low Down Low wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 4:25pm
Could this qualify as rap or hip hop in any way?

I would personally say it's more in the vein of Doo Wop.
Yeah, kind of a transition between gospel and doo wop.
It is the same flow as Rappers Delight, if a blues song at root.
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Silent Majority
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Silent Majority »

The rhythm and rhyming of the best MCs, the cadence, the flow, the lyrics are so very clever once you tune your ears to it (and do some terrible attempts at rapping of your own)
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Dr. Medulla
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 10:55am
The rhythm and rhyming of the best MCs, the cadence, the flow, the lyrics are so very clever once you tune your ears to it (and do some terrible attempts at rapping of your own)
A couple days ago, I did my origins of hip hop lecture and explained, after showing a clip of “Rapper’s Delight,” that originally I quoted some of the lyrics, which was traumatic and embarrassing for me and the students. Afterwards, a student asked me if I could nevertheless do some for them. “Could I? No. Will I? No.” As Dirty Harry said, a man’s gotta know his limitations.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: January 1st 1983

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 1:45pm
Silent Majority wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 10:55am
The rhythm and rhyming of the best MCs, the cadence, the flow, the lyrics are so very clever once you tune your ears to it (and do some terrible attempts at rapping of your own)
A couple days ago, I did my origins of hip hop lecture and explained, after showing a clip of “Rapper’s Delight,” that originally I quoted some of the lyrics, which was traumatic and embarrassing for me and the students. Afterwards, a student asked me if I could nevertheless do some for them. “Could I? No. Will I? No.” As Dirty Harry said, a man’s gotta know his limitations.
Dirty Medulla "In all this excitement did I fire off six rhymes or only five?".
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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