You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

General music discussion.
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Marky Dread
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Marky Dread »

WestwayKid wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:58pm


I remember this being a respectable hit back in the day. Kind of generic Heartland rock, but I've heard far, far worse.
I've always liked this Red Rockers cover of The Hooters "Blood from a Stone".



Always makes me smile when I see ex Stiff Little Fingers drummer Jimi Reilly in that vid.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Marky Dread
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:56pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 12:58pm
Time After Time was written by Hooters keyboardist/accordian player Rob Hyman.
That one song set him up for life, I imagine. Not retirement cash, but the steady royalties would keep him comfortable.
Great song. I really like that Cindy album. Solid pop stuff.
I've tried a few times to formulate a lecture on feminism in 80s pop music that worked CL and Madonna as different expressions, in no small part because I remember, back in the day, the girls tended to split between Lauper fans and Madonna fans. But I've never been able to properly focus my thoughts with the research. What I've gathered is still sitting there, hoping for me to figure out what the hell I want to say about it all.
I think they both came from very similar music backgrounds. Obviously Madonna had the greater success and longevity. But Cyndi was simply great, great fun. Never took it too seriously. Styles from both definitely influenced a generation of teenage girls.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:14pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:56pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 12:58pm
Time After Time was written by Hooters keyboardist/accordian player Rob Hyman.
That one song set him up for life, I imagine. Not retirement cash, but the steady royalties would keep him comfortable.
Great song. I really like that Cindy album. Solid pop stuff.
I've tried a few times to formulate a lecture on feminism in 80s pop music that worked CL and Madonna as different expressions, in no small part because I remember, back in the day, the girls tended to split between Lauper fans and Madonna fans. But I've never been able to properly focus my thoughts with the research. What I've gathered is still sitting there, hoping for me to figure out what the hell I want to say about it all.
I think they both came from very similar music backgrounds. Obviously Madonna had the greater success and longevity. But Cyndi was simply great, great fun. Never took it too seriously. Styles from both definitely influenced a generation of teenage girls.
The ideas that I was trying to construct revolved around sexual power (over men) and something more individual, an identity not dependent upon men. Never quite developed things the way I wanted with my evidence.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

matedog
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by matedog »

Ha! The lead singer of The Hooters is named "Eric Bazilian." As in, "'And We Danced' sold a bazilian records."
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:58pm


I remember this being a respectable hit back in the day. Kind of generic Heartland rock, but I've heard far, far worse.
I'd put it up there with Summer of 69. Solid ass tune, great execution. People like to shit on it and say it's bad, but they are wrong.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
15 May 2023, 3:51pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:58pm


I remember this being a respectable hit back in the day. Kind of generic Heartland rock, but I've heard far, far worse.
I'd put it up there with Summer of 69. Solid ass tune, great execution. People like to shit on it and say it's bad, but they are wrong.
Yup. It doesn't need to be a work of art to be very listenable.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

Marky Dread
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:32pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:14pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:56pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:09pm


That one song set him up for life, I imagine. Not retirement cash, but the steady royalties would keep him comfortable.
Great song. I really like that Cindy album. Solid pop stuff.
I've tried a few times to formulate a lecture on feminism in 80s pop music that worked CL and Madonna as different expressions, in no small part because I remember, back in the day, the girls tended to split between Lauper fans and Madonna fans. But I've never been able to properly focus my thoughts with the research. What I've gathered is still sitting there, hoping for me to figure out what the hell I want to say about it all.
I think they both came from very similar music backgrounds. Obviously Madonna had the greater success and longevity. But Cyndi was simply great, great fun. Never took it too seriously. Styles from both definitely influenced a generation of teenage girls.
The ideas that I was trying to construct revolved around sexual power (over men) and something more individual, an identity not dependent upon men. Never quite developed things the way I wanted with my evidence.
Well as good as both artists are I guess they were dependent on a lot of men. Producing/recording/musicians/promotion and so on. This isn't me saying women can't do any of those things as equally as good but at that point it was and probably still is a very male dominated industry.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:24pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:32pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:14pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:56pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:11pm


Great song. I really like that Cindy album. Solid pop stuff.
I've tried a few times to formulate a lecture on feminism in 80s pop music that worked CL and Madonna as different expressions, in no small part because I remember, back in the day, the girls tended to split between Lauper fans and Madonna fans. But I've never been able to properly focus my thoughts with the research. What I've gathered is still sitting there, hoping for me to figure out what the hell I want to say about it all.
I think they both came from very similar music backgrounds. Obviously Madonna had the greater success and longevity. But Cyndi was simply great, great fun. Never took it too seriously. Styles from both definitely influenced a generation of teenage girls.
The ideas that I was trying to construct revolved around sexual power (over men) and something more individual, an identity not dependent upon men. Never quite developed things the way I wanted with my evidence.
Well as good as both artists are I guess they were dependent on a lot of men. Producing/recording/musicians/promotion and so on. This isn't me saying women can't do any of those things as equally as good but at that point it was and probably still is a very male dominated industry.
The thing I wanted to do was tie their public persona to larger conceptions of feminism in the 80s, when feminism was thought to be over. In some respects, I wasn't as interested in who they really were so much as how they were vessels for expressing those perspectives (I'm someone who does intellectual history rather than biography—people for me are only good for expressing ideas!).
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:41pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:24pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:32pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:14pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:56pm


I've tried a few times to formulate a lecture on feminism in 80s pop music that worked CL and Madonna as different expressions, in no small part because I remember, back in the day, the girls tended to split between Lauper fans and Madonna fans. But I've never been able to properly focus my thoughts with the research. What I've gathered is still sitting there, hoping for me to figure out what the hell I want to say about it all.
I think they both came from very similar music backgrounds. Obviously Madonna had the greater success and longevity. But Cyndi was simply great, great fun. Never took it too seriously. Styles from both definitely influenced a generation of teenage girls.
The ideas that I was trying to construct revolved around sexual power (over men) and something more individual, an identity not dependent upon men. Never quite developed things the way I wanted with my evidence.
Well as good as both artists are I guess they were dependent on a lot of men. Producing/recording/musicians/promotion and so on. This isn't me saying women can't do any of those things as equally as good but at that point it was and probably still is a very male dominated industry.
The thing I wanted to do was tie their public persona to larger conceptions of feminism in the 80s, when feminism was thought to be over. In some respects, I wasn't as interested in who they really were so much as how they were vessels for expressing those perspectives (I'm someone who does intellectual history rather than biography—people for me are only good for expressing ideas!).
I see.
I see feminism in rock n roll/pop as something of an equal to any male counterpart. Lots of strong women coming through in bands via the underground movement. Kim Gordon in Sonic Youth springs to mind they formed in '81 I think.

Of course they did the Ciccone Youth thing too.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:01pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:41pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:24pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:32pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:14pm


I think they both came from very similar music backgrounds. Obviously Madonna had the greater success and longevity. But Cyndi was simply great, great fun. Never took it too seriously. Styles from both definitely influenced a generation of teenage girls.
The ideas that I was trying to construct revolved around sexual power (over men) and something more individual, an identity not dependent upon men. Never quite developed things the way I wanted with my evidence.
Well as good as both artists are I guess they were dependent on a lot of men. Producing/recording/musicians/promotion and so on. This isn't me saying women can't do any of those things as equally as good but at that point it was and probably still is a very male dominated industry.
The thing I wanted to do was tie their public persona to larger conceptions of feminism in the 80s, when feminism was thought to be over. In some respects, I wasn't as interested in who they really were so much as how they were vessels for expressing those perspectives (I'm someone who does intellectual history rather than biography—people for me are only good for expressing ideas!).
I see.
I see feminism in rock n roll/pop as something of an equal to any male counterpart. Lots of strong women coming through in bands via the underground movement. Kim Gordon in Sonic Youth springs to mind they formed in '81 I think.

Of course they did the Ciccone Youth thing too.
Yup. Just not what I'm doing in that class (and lecture idea). It's less a history of rock than the intersection of popular music with larger historical political/social issues. That's why students ask me I don't do a lecture on X and my response is that I need to be able to tie it into something wider than the music. Plenty of bands I'd love to basically geek out on, but I need a context.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:38pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:01pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:41pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:24pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 2:32pm


The ideas that I was trying to construct revolved around sexual power (over men) and something more individual, an identity not dependent upon men. Never quite developed things the way I wanted with my evidence.
Well as good as both artists are I guess they were dependent on a lot of men. Producing/recording/musicians/promotion and so on. This isn't me saying women can't do any of those things as equally as good but at that point it was and probably still is a very male dominated industry.
The thing I wanted to do was tie their public persona to larger conceptions of feminism in the 80s, when feminism was thought to be over. In some respects, I wasn't as interested in who they really were so much as how they were vessels for expressing those perspectives (I'm someone who does intellectual history rather than biography—people for me are only good for expressing ideas!).
I see.
I see feminism in rock n roll/pop as something of an equal to any male counterpart. Lots of strong women coming through in bands via the underground movement. Kim Gordon in Sonic Youth springs to mind they formed in '81 I think.

Of course they did the Ciccone Youth thing too.
Yup. Just not what I'm doing in that class (and lecture idea). It's less a history of rock than the intersection of popular music with larger historical political/social issues. That's why students ask me I don't do a lecture on X and my response is that I need to be able to tie it into something wider than the music. Plenty of bands I'd love to basically geek out on, but I need a context.
So your lecture is regards to women in any medium being strong and breaking out of stereotypes. And you wanted to tie in how strong women in the media can be an inspiration to others. Am I reading that correct?
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 6:18pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:38pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:01pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:41pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:24pm


Well as good as both artists are I guess they were dependent on a lot of men. Producing/recording/musicians/promotion and so on. This isn't me saying women can't do any of those things as equally as good but at that point it was and probably still is a very male dominated industry.
The thing I wanted to do was tie their public persona to larger conceptions of feminism in the 80s, when feminism was thought to be over. In some respects, I wasn't as interested in who they really were so much as how they were vessels for expressing those perspectives (I'm someone who does intellectual history rather than biography—people for me are only good for expressing ideas!).
I see.
I see feminism in rock n roll/pop as something of an equal to any male counterpart. Lots of strong women coming through in bands via the underground movement. Kim Gordon in Sonic Youth springs to mind they formed in '81 I think.

Of course they did the Ciccone Youth thing too.
Yup. Just not what I'm doing in that class (and lecture idea). It's less a history of rock than the intersection of popular music with larger historical political/social issues. That's why students ask me I don't do a lecture on X and my response is that I need to be able to tie it into something wider than the music. Plenty of bands I'd love to basically geek out on, but I need a context.
So your lecture is regards to women in any medium being strong and breaking out of stereotypes. And you wanted to tie in how strong women in the media can be an inspiration to others. Am I reading that correct?
Well, to be clear, there is no lecture—I never quite figured out what my grander point was and how to illustrate it. But the rough idea was using Madonna and Cyndi Lauper as representations of two significant feminine ideals for young women in the 80s, in an era when feminism as a political force had gone into hibernation. Like the rest of the course, it's about thinking of musicians not exclusively as entertainers but a means of thinking about other questions. It would have also been a set up of sorts for my Riot Grrrl / 3rd wave feminism lecture.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 6:36pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 6:18pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:38pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:01pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:41pm


The thing I wanted to do was tie their public persona to larger conceptions of feminism in the 80s, when feminism was thought to be over. In some respects, I wasn't as interested in who they really were so much as how they were vessels for expressing those perspectives (I'm someone who does intellectual history rather than biography—people for me are only good for expressing ideas!).
I see.
I see feminism in rock n roll/pop as something of an equal to any male counterpart. Lots of strong women coming through in bands via the underground movement. Kim Gordon in Sonic Youth springs to mind they formed in '81 I think.

Of course they did the Ciccone Youth thing too.
Yup. Just not what I'm doing in that class (and lecture idea). It's less a history of rock than the intersection of popular music with larger historical political/social issues. That's why students ask me I don't do a lecture on X and my response is that I need to be able to tie it into something wider than the music. Plenty of bands I'd love to basically geek out on, but I need a context.
So your lecture is regards to women in any medium being strong and breaking out of stereotypes. And you wanted to tie in how strong women in the media can be an inspiration to others. Am I reading that correct?
Well, to be clear, there is no lecture—I never quite figured out what my grander point was and how to illustrate it. But the rough idea was using Madonna and Cyndi Lauper as representations of two significant feminine ideals for young women in the 80s, in an era when feminism as a political force had gone into hibernation. Like the rest of the course, it's about thinking of musicians not exclusively as entertainers but a means of thinking about other questions. It would have also been a set up of sorts for my Riot Grrrl / 3rd wave feminism lecture.
I wonder if with further research you might find other inspirational women in other areas of art etc that could've been considered. Madonna and Cyndi I guess being two of the most popular mainstream artists of the day being the obvious choices.

I'm thinking Oprah Winfrey, Margaret Thatcher (argh!), Cher, Nancy Reagan....
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Flex »

WestwayKid wrote:
15 May 2023, 4:16pm
matedog wrote:
15 May 2023, 3:51pm
WestwayKid wrote:
15 May 2023, 1:58pm


I remember this being a respectable hit back in the day. Kind of generic Heartland rock, but I've heard far, far worse.
I'd put it up there with Summer of 69. Solid ass tune, great execution. People like to shit on it and say it's bad, but they are wrong.
Yup. It doesn't need to be a work of art to be very listenable.
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Re: You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 6:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 6:36pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 6:18pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:38pm
Marky Dread wrote:
15 May 2023, 5:01pm


I see.
I see feminism in rock n roll/pop as something of an equal to any male counterpart. Lots of strong women coming through in bands via the underground movement. Kim Gordon in Sonic Youth springs to mind they formed in '81 I think.

Of course they did the Ciccone Youth thing too.
Yup. Just not what I'm doing in that class (and lecture idea). It's less a history of rock than the intersection of popular music with larger historical political/social issues. That's why students ask me I don't do a lecture on X and my response is that I need to be able to tie it into something wider than the music. Plenty of bands I'd love to basically geek out on, but I need a context.
So your lecture is regards to women in any medium being strong and breaking out of stereotypes. And you wanted to tie in how strong women in the media can be an inspiration to others. Am I reading that correct?
Well, to be clear, there is no lecture—I never quite figured out what my grander point was and how to illustrate it. But the rough idea was using Madonna and Cyndi Lauper as representations of two significant feminine ideals for young women in the 80s, in an era when feminism as a political force had gone into hibernation. Like the rest of the course, it's about thinking of musicians not exclusively as entertainers but a means of thinking about other questions. It would have also been a set up of sorts for my Riot Grrrl / 3rd wave feminism lecture.
I wonder if with further research you might find other inspirational women in other areas of art etc that could've been considered. Madonna and Cyndi I guess being two of the most popular mainstream artists of the day being the obvious choices.

I'm thinking Oprah Winfrey, Margaret Thatcher (argh!), Cher, Nancy Reagan....
Yes, except it's a class about rock and society, so I need to stick to musicians. I mean, you're right, there are all kinds of options for exploring this—actors are the obvious choice in sticking with entertainment—but I'm working popular music. I'm also sensitive to my bent towards punk and punk-adjacent artists, so I try to step back from that and hew closer to the mainstream. And Madonna and CL were contemporaneous, both direct beneficiaries of MTV. Their look and their videos as much as their music was vital to their initial success, even as they presented distinctly different presentations of femininity (girls just wanna have fun with their friends vs. girls wanna fuck and dominate). Again, rough ideas. Every so often I spend a day thinking about it, but I haven't found that focus, that reason for doing it. I do have two lectures related to feminist perspectives via rock—girl groups in the early 60s and Riot Grrrl—so it's not like I'm avoiding that area entirely, but I do like the set up of Madonna and CL. I'm working on a disco lecture right now, so I'm halfway slotting a serious tackling for next year (I try to write one new lecture for the rock course each year so that I can try new stuff out).
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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