You're still a thing? Bands that you thought were finished but are playing the local casino this week

[Dr. Medulla]

Her outlook is fundamentally more empowering and liberating. Trust yourself and be yourself works at any age; Madonna’s “make men want to fuck you and you can gain power” is something that is dependent upon others and shaping yourself to appeal to them. Madonna’s persona is one that doesn’t exist if the camera isn’t on; Cyndi’s is always available.

Plus, Cindy's voice is better and she could make fun of herself.

I was listening to a Madonna song recently and thought to myself, wow, she actually had/has a pretty unremarkable voice.

She got better. Ray of Light is a great vocal.

I like Cyndi Lauper but she never had the great material Madonna had to work with. And wasn't as pretty and sexy unfortunately.

Hello,

Madonna was much more MTV-friendly. Young people need to understand the impact and sway MTV had on popular music for a period.

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

[WestwayKid]

Top-10 "Heartland" Rock Tracks of the 80's (in no particular order):

1) Summer of 69 - Bryan Adams
2) Night Moves - Bob Seger
3) And We Danced - The Hooters
4) Rain on the Scarecrow - John Mellencamp
5) Glory Days - Bruce Springsteen
6) American Girl - Tom Petty
7)

...and that's all I got right now.

[WestwayKid]

Plus, Cindy's voice is better and she could make fun of herself.

I was listening to a Madonna song recently and thought to myself, wow, she actually had/has a pretty unremarkable voice.

She got better. Ray of Light is a great vocal.

I like Cyndi Lauper but she never had the great material Madonna had to work with. And wasn't as pretty and sexy unfortunately.

Hello,

Madonna was much more MTV-friendly. Young people need to understand the impact and sway MTV had on popular music for a period.

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

I agree with this. They both had very effective angles when it came to MTV. I remember being very aware of Cyndi with her fun wrestling stuff and her Goonies soundtrack song.

[Dr. Medulla]

Can anyone really imagine Madonna singing "True Colors"? Or Cyndi doing "Like a Virgin"?

Crazy For You wasn't too far away from the soft ballad style of True Colors.

But the lyrics! I don't think either woman, with her established persona, could effectively do the other person's song. Madonna is many things, but she does not convey empathy. And CL was not a "fuck me, big boy" singer. Her handling of "She-Bop" was celebratory and funny.

[Dr. Medulla]

I remember being very aware of Cyndi with her fun wrestling stuff and her Goonies soundtrack song.

Apparently she's not a fan of that Goonies song. Yes, it's a bit derivative of She's So Unusual material, but it's a lot of fun.

[gkbill]

Plus, Cindy's voice is better and she could make fun of herself.

I was listening to a Madonna song recently and thought to myself, wow, she actually had/has a pretty unremarkable voice.

She got better. Ray of Light is a great vocal.

I like Cyndi Lauper but she never had the great material Madonna had to work with. And wasn't as pretty and sexy unfortunately.

Hello,

Madonna was much more MTV-friendly. Young people need to understand the impact and sway MTV had on popular music for a period.

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

Hello,

I'd disagree with your thought that Cyndi was as MTV-friendly - perhaps we're agreeing without knowing it. Cyndi and Madonna were MTV-friendly but Madonna had much greater exposure (more videos, more plays). I'm basing this on my viewing (which was limited) and hearing from friends and popular media. The controversy regarding the Like a Virgin video was far beyond any discussion regarding Cyndi's videos.

I strongly agree with your idea of Madonna as a more savvy self-promoter. Cyndi just wanted to have fun.

[WestwayKid]

Can anyone really imagine Madonna singing "True Colors"? Or Cyndi doing "Like a Virgin"?

Crazy For You wasn't too far away from the soft ballad style of True Colors.

Not to sidetrack this convo too much, but has anyone ever seen Vision Quest, the movie that Crazy for You is from? It's ridiculously bad. If I recall, Madonna actually appears in the movie performing the song.

Live to Tell was a far better soundtrack song (and from a far better film).

[Silent Majority]

Sure, I'll be gauche enough to link this
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6XKmSs ... Hc9LevUEcQ

[Dr. Medulla]

I was listening to a Madonna song recently and thought to myself, wow, she actually had/has a pretty unremarkable voice.

She got better. Ray of Light is a great vocal.

I like Cyndi Lauper but she never had the great material Madonna had to work with. And wasn't as pretty and sexy unfortunately.

Hello,

Madonna was much more MTV-friendly. Young people need to understand the impact and sway MTV had on popular music for a period.

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

Hello,

I'd disagree with your thought that Cyndi was as MTV-friendly - perhaps we're agreeing without knowing it. Cyndi and Madonna were MTV-friendly but Madonna had much greater exposure (more videos, more plays). I'm basing this on my viewing (which was limited) and hearing from friends and popular media. The controversy regarding the Like a Virgin video was far beyond any discussion regarding Cyndi's videos.

I strongly agree with you idea of Madonna as a more savvy self-promoter. Cyndi just wanted to have fun.

I didn't have MTV and didn't get MuchMusic until '86 or so, but watching the video shows like Friday Night Videos and Canadian ones, my recollection is that they got comparable play. Definitely, Madonna was more controversial (intentionally so), so her videos were evaluated and dissected more, but both artists were skilled at the medium and drew eyeballs/ears, which was the bottom line for MTV (or radio).

[gkbill]

She got better. Ray of Light is a great vocal.

I like Cyndi Lauper but she never had the great material Madonna had to work with. And wasn't as pretty and sexy unfortunately.

Hello,

Madonna was much more MTV-friendly. Young people need to understand the impact and sway MTV had on popular music for a period.

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

Hello,

I'd disagree with your thought that Cyndi was as MTV-friendly - perhaps we're agreeing without knowing it. Cyndi and Madonna were MTV-friendly but Madonna had much greater exposure (more videos, more plays). I'm basing this on my viewing (which was limited) and hearing from friends and popular media. The controversy regarding the Like a Virgin video was far beyond any discussion regarding Cyndi's videos.

I strongly agree with you idea of Madonna as a more savvy self-promoter. Cyndi just wanted to have fun.

I didn't have MTV and didn't get MuchMusic until '86 or so, but watching the video shows like Friday Night Videos and Canadian ones, my recollection is that they got comparable play. Definitely, Madonna was more controversial (intentionally so), so her videos were evaluated and dissected more, but both artists were skilled at the medium and drew eyeballs/ears, which was the bottom line for MTV (or radio).

Hello,

Madonna from wikipedia:
American singer Madonna has released 78 music videos, eleven concert tour videos, two documentary videos, four music video compilations, two music video box sets, four promotional videos, and four video singles. Nicknamed as the "Queen of Videos" or "Queen of MTV",[2][3][4][5] her music videos were often considered by critics as works of art, depicting various social issues. Her early videos also received a significant academic attention. Madonna has won 20 MTV Video Music Awards, including the 1986 Video Vanguard Award for which she became the first female honoree.[6] In 2003, MTV named her "The Greatest Music Video Star Ever"

Cyndi Lauper videos (year (number)) from IMVDb:
1989 (6), 1986 (5), 1984 (4), 2008 (3), 1983 (3), 1985 (3), 1994 (3), 1993 (2), 1996 (2), 1991 (1), 1988 (1), 2003 (1), 1987 (1), 1997 (1), No Year (1)

I don't know why I've done this - classes are over and I need a break from writing - plus I've always looked upon Cyndi Lauper as an underdog. My youth was different than yours. I was a teenager during MTV's boom period.

[gkbill]

Hello,

Madonna was much more MTV-friendly. Young people need to understand the impact and sway MTV had on popular music for a period.

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

Hello,

I'd disagree with your thought that Cyndi was as MTV-friendly - perhaps we're agreeing without knowing it. Cyndi and Madonna were MTV-friendly but Madonna had much greater exposure (more videos, more plays). I'm basing this on my viewing (which was limited) and hearing from friends and popular media. The controversy regarding the Like a Virgin video was far beyond any discussion regarding Cyndi's videos.

I strongly agree with you idea of Madonna as a more savvy self-promoter. Cyndi just wanted to have fun.

I didn't have MTV and didn't get MuchMusic until '86 or so, but watching the video shows like Friday Night Videos and Canadian ones, my recollection is that they got comparable play. Definitely, Madonna was more controversial (intentionally so), so her videos were evaluated and dissected more, but both artists were skilled at the medium and drew eyeballs/ears, which was the bottom line for MTV (or radio).

Hello,

Madonna from wikipedia:
American singer Madonna has released 78 music videos, eleven concert tour videos, two documentary videos, four music video compilations, two music video box sets, four promotional videos, and four video singles. Nicknamed as the "Queen of Videos" or "Queen of MTV",[2][3][4][5] her music videos were often considered by critics as works of art, depicting various social issues. Her early videos also received a significant academic attention. Madonna has won 20 MTV Video Music Awards, including the 1986 Video Vanguard Award for which she became the first female honoree.[6] In 2003, MTV named her "The Greatest Music Video Star Ever"

Cyndi Lauper videos (year (number)) from IMVDb:
1989 (6), 1986 (5), 1984 (4), 2008 (3), 1983 (3), 1985 (3), 1994 (3), 1993 (2), 1996 (2), 1991 (1), 1988 (1), 2003 (1), 1987 (1), 1997 (1), No Year (1)

I don't know why I've done this - classes are over and I need a break from writing - plus I've always looked upon Cyndi Lauper as an underdog. Additionally, Cyndi was friends with Captain Lou Albano - that's a plus!

My youth was different than yours. I was a teenager during MTV's boom period.

[Dr. Medulla]

Hello,

Madonna was much more MTV-friendly. Young people need to understand the impact and sway MTV had on popular music for a period.

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

Hello,

I'd disagree with your thought that Cyndi was as MTV-friendly - perhaps we're agreeing without knowing it. Cyndi and Madonna were MTV-friendly but Madonna had much greater exposure (more videos, more plays). I'm basing this on my viewing (which was limited) and hearing from friends and popular media. The controversy regarding the Like a Virgin video was far beyond any discussion regarding Cyndi's videos.

I strongly agree with you idea of Madonna as a more savvy self-promoter. Cyndi just wanted to have fun.

I didn't have MTV and didn't get MuchMusic until '86 or so, but watching the video shows like Friday Night Videos and Canadian ones, my recollection is that they got comparable play. Definitely, Madonna was more controversial (intentionally so), so her videos were evaluated and dissected more, but both artists were skilled at the medium and drew eyeballs/ears, which was the bottom line for MTV (or radio).

Hello,

Madonna from wikipedia:
American singer Madonna has released 78 music videos, eleven concert tour videos, two documentary videos, four music video compilations, two music video box sets, four promotional videos, and four video singles. Nicknamed as the "Queen of Videos" or "Queen of MTV",[2][3][4][5] her music videos were often considered by critics as works of art, depicting various social issues. Her early videos also received a significant academic attention. Madonna has won 20 MTV Video Music Awards, including the 1986 Video Vanguard Award for which she became the first female honoree.[6] In 2003, MTV named her "The Greatest Music Video Star Ever"

Cyndi Lauper videos (year (number)) from IMVDb:
1989 (6), 1986 (5), 1984 (4), 2008 (3), 1983 (3), 1985 (3), 1994 (3), 1993 (2), 1996 (2), 1991 (1), 1988 (1), 2003 (1), 1987 (1), 1997 (1), No Year (1)

I don't know why I've done this - classes are over and I need a break from writing - plus I've always looked upon Cyndi Lauper as an underdog. My youth was different than yours. I was a teenager during MTV's boom period.

I certainly won't dispute that Madonna's had a longer career in terms of influence and exposure, but in terms of each of their initial exposure to the wider audience via MTV (ignoring Madonna's first record), I think it's absolutely comparable. Madonna ended up a much bigger star than CL—as duh a statement as I'll ever make—but I don't think it's because Madonna was clearly superior in terms of utilizing MTV. Madonna was more in sync with Reagan era materialism and vampiric self-interest, and that gave her the ultimate edge.

[Low Down Low]

Good discussion to which I don't really have much of value to add, but I do quite clearly remember seeing Madonna performing Holiday on Top of the Pops which i think was her breakthrough. I didn't think much of the song really, but i remember thinking there was a quality there that suggested this was a kid going places. Didn't take a genius to see it, it was perfectly luminous and obvious to any fool with half a brain.

[Marky Dread]

CL was just as MTV-friendly. More to the point, I don't think CL becomes a star without it. She made eye-catching fun and funny videos and she was especially telegenic. I think it's push between the two of them in terms of MTV. In terms of working the larger media, Madonna was much, much better—a savvy self-promoter (and I don't mean that as an insult).

Hello,

I'd disagree with your thought that Cyndi was as MTV-friendly - perhaps we're agreeing without knowing it. Cyndi and Madonna were MTV-friendly but Madonna had much greater exposure (more videos, more plays). I'm basing this on my viewing (which was limited) and hearing from friends and popular media. The controversy regarding the Like a Virgin video was far beyond any discussion regarding Cyndi's videos.

I strongly agree with you idea of Madonna as a more savvy self-promoter. Cyndi just wanted to have fun.

I didn't have MTV and didn't get MuchMusic until '86 or so, but watching the video shows like Friday Night Videos and Canadian ones, my recollection is that they got comparable play. Definitely, Madonna was more controversial (intentionally so), so her videos were evaluated and dissected more, but both artists were skilled at the medium and drew eyeballs/ears, which was the bottom line for MTV (or radio).

Hello,

Madonna from wikipedia:
American singer Madonna has released 78 music videos, eleven concert tour videos, two documentary videos, four music video compilations, two music video box sets, four promotional videos, and four video singles. Nicknamed as the "Queen of Videos" or "Queen of MTV",[2][3][4][5] her music videos were often considered by critics as works of art, depicting various social issues. Her early videos also received a significant academic attention. Madonna has won 20 MTV Video Music Awards, including the 1986 Video Vanguard Award for which she became the first female honoree.[6] In 2003, MTV named her "The Greatest Music Video Star Ever"

Cyndi Lauper videos (year (number)) from IMVDb:
1989 (6), 1986 (5), 1984 (4), 2008 (3), 1983 (3), 1985 (3), 1994 (3), 1993 (2), 1996 (2), 1991 (1), 1988 (1), 2003 (1), 1987 (1), 1997 (1), No Year (1)

I don't know why I've done this - classes are over and I need a break from writing - plus I've always looked upon Cyndi Lauper as an underdog. My youth was different than yours. I was a teenager during MTV's boom period.

I certainly won't dispute that Madonna's had a longer career in terms of influence and exposure, but in terms of each of their initial exposure to the wider audience via MTV (ignoring Madonna's first record), I think it's absolutely comparable. Madonna ended up a much bigger star than CL—as duh a statement as I'll ever make—but I don't think it's because Madonna was clearly superior in terms of utilizing MTV. Madonna was more in sync with Reagan era materialism and vampiric self-interest, and that gave her the ultimate edge.

I agree with Doc certainly wouldn't give as much credit to Madonna for utilizing MTV as the 80s were the era of of hype. With the record companies doing their upmost to milk albums for as many singles as possible. With god knows how many different formats they could release.

[Dr. Medulla]

Weirdly, well before either of them had achieved success and/or notoriety, Madonna and Michael Gira dated for a time.