He definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:35pmHadn't heard that. He should have written a song called Dublin DungeonMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pmI think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
Public Image Limited
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 5026
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Public Image Limited
Re: Public Image Limited
Im not terribly familiar with the PiL catalog.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:40pmHe definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:35pmHadn't heard that. He should have written a song called Dublin DungeonMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pmI think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 5026
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Public Image Limited
Reasonable question and it's impossible to know but my suspicion is that the barman simply took one look at these guys swanning into his establishment and instinctively decided no fuckin way i'm serving this trash and Johnnys belligerence took it from there. That's what fits my idea (and vague recollection) of that era Ireland anyway.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:39pmI also wonder what JL's attitude was there that night. Was he acting the diva that night? Which is to say, did he encourage the barman's surly behaviour in any way by being in Johnny Rotten mode? I'm not putting all the blame on him by any means, but, especially back then, he was a button-pusher.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:28pmI think you're right, John always carried a bit of resentment about how he'd been treated there and also his mother before him, vaguely recall some talk about that in his book. The original story of his arrest makes for interesting reading, the barman refused to serve him because he looked "very seedy"!! Truth was being a punk in Dublin in late 70s/early 80s was akin to being a Traveller or any other persecuted minority. I supped in the Horse & Tram pub many a time, actually a very decent watering hole and sadly no more, like most of my favourite old haunts.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pmI think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
https://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/I ... ele80.html
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116692
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Public Image Limited
"Four Enclosed Walls"?Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:40pmHe definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:35pmHadn't heard that. He should have written a song called Dublin DungeonMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pmI think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Public Image Limited
I'll look it up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:46pm"Four Enclosed Walls"?Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:40pmHe definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:35pmHadn't heard that. He should have written a song called Dublin DungeonMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pmI think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116692
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Public Image Limited
That's more or less my guess. Asshole barman acts like an asshole and Lydon pushes back. And good on him if he was basically justifying his existence to this guy.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:45pmReasonable question and it's impossible to know but my suspicion is that the barman simply took one look at these guys swanning into his establishment and instinctively decided no fuckin way i'm serving this trash and Johnnys belligerence took it from there. That's what fits my idea (and vague recollection) of that era Ireland anyway.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:39pmI also wonder what JL's attitude was there that night. Was he acting the diva that night? Which is to say, did he encourage the barman's surly behaviour in any way by being in Johnny Rotten mode? I'm not putting all the blame on him by any means, but, especially back then, he was a button-pusher.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:28pmI think you're right, John always carried a bit of resentment about how he'd been treated there and also his mother before him, vaguely recall some talk about that in his book. The original story of his arrest makes for interesting reading, the barman refused to serve him because he looked "very seedy"!! Truth was being a punk in Dublin in late 70s/early 80s was akin to being a Traveller or any other persecuted minority. I supped in the Horse & Tram pub many a time, actually a very decent watering hole and sadly no more, like most of my favourite old haunts.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pmI think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
https://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/I ... ele80.html
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116692
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Public Image Limited
That's a complete guess on my part, given the time period of the song and its title.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:48pmI'll look it up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:46pm"Four Enclosed Walls"?Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:40pmHe definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:35pmHadn't heard that. He should have written a song called Dublin DungeonMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pm
I think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 5026
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Public Image Limited
Right album but Francis Massacre is the tune. Though I'm not 100% certain who Francis Moran is meant to be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:50pmThat's a complete guess on my part, given the time period of the song and its title.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:48pmI'll look it up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:46pm"Four Enclosed Walls"?Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:40pmHe definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.
https://genius.com/Public-image-ltd-fra ... cre-lyrics
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 59038
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Public Image Limited
IRA prisoner who was hanged in Mountjoy prison.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:51pmRight album but Francis Massacre is the tune. Though I'm not 100% certain who Francis Moran is meant to be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:50pmThat's a complete guess on my part, given the time period of the song and its title.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:48pmI'll look it up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:46pm"Four Enclosed Walls"?Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:40pm
He definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.
https://genius.com/Public-image-ltd-fra ... cre-lyrics
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick ... epublican)
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 5026
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Public Image Limited
Yeah, i mean the only thing I can say with conviction here is that not all but a lot of barmen back then could be real assholes. If they didn't like the cut of your jib, too bad, you weren't getting served and being a punk at that time in Ireland was pretty much automatic refusal in a lot of places. My instinct is to be with John on this one.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:49pmThat's more or less my guess. Asshole barman acts like an asshole and Lydon pushes back. And good on him if he was basically justifying his existence to this guy.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:45pmReasonable question and it's impossible to know but my suspicion is that the barman simply took one look at these guys swanning into his establishment and instinctively decided no fuckin way i'm serving this trash and Johnnys belligerence took it from there. That's what fits my idea (and vague recollection) of that era Ireland anyway.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:39pmI also wonder what JL's attitude was there that night. Was he acting the diva that night? Which is to say, did he encourage the barman's surly behaviour in any way by being in Johnny Rotten mode? I'm not putting all the blame on him by any means, but, especially back then, he was a button-pusher.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:28pmI think you're right, John always carried a bit of resentment about how he'd been treated there and also his mother before him, vaguely recall some talk about that in his book. The original story of his arrest makes for interesting reading, the barman refused to serve him because he looked "very seedy"!! Truth was being a punk in Dublin in late 70s/early 80s was akin to being a Traveller or any other persecuted minority. I supped in the Horse & Tram pub many a time, actually a very decent watering hole and sadly no more, like most of my favourite old haunts.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 5:54pm
I think that it all goes back to the early 80s when he was put in Mountjoy prison.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-op ... ns-6981133
https://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/I ... ele80.html
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 5026
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Public Image Limited
Cheers Marky. That's actually quite amazing, i spend every day in Moran Park and frequent the amazing library there but was never aware of its history until now. I will have to do some more digging into that.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 7:01pmIRA prisoner who was hanged in Mountjoy prison.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:51pmRight album but Francis Massacre is the tune. Though I'm not 100% certain who Francis Moran is meant to be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:50pmThat's a complete guess on my part, given the time period of the song and its title.
https://genius.com/Public-image-ltd-fra ... cre-lyrics
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick ... epublican)
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116692
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Public Image Limited
Thanks for the correction. After thinking further, "Four Enclosed Walls" would involve a whole lot of extra interpretation to see that as about JL's incarceration.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:51pmRight album but Francis Massacre is the tune. Though I'm not 100% certain who Francis Moran is meant to be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:50pmThat's a complete guess on my part, given the time period of the song and its title.revbob wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:48pmI'll look it up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:46pm"Four Enclosed Walls"?Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:40pm
He definitely wrote at least one song about it though can't recall the title, just remember the line where he's before the beak and pleads not guilty.
https://genius.com/Public-image-ltd-fra ... cre-lyrics
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116692
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: Public Image Limited
So they were jaded record shop clerks (see Jack Black's character in High Fidelity).Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 7:04pmYeah, i mean the only thing I can say with conviction here is that not all but a lot of barmen back then could be real assholes. If they didn't like the cut of your jib, too bad, you weren't getting served and being a punk at that time in Ireland was pretty much automatic refusal in a lot of places. My instinct is to be with John on this one.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:49pmThat's more or less my guess. Asshole barman acts like an asshole and Lydon pushes back. And good on him if he was basically justifying his existence to this guy.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:45pmReasonable question and it's impossible to know but my suspicion is that the barman simply took one look at these guys swanning into his establishment and instinctively decided no fuckin way i'm serving this trash and Johnnys belligerence took it from there. That's what fits my idea (and vague recollection) of that era Ireland anyway.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:39pmI also wonder what JL's attitude was there that night. Was he acting the diva that night? Which is to say, did he encourage the barman's surly behaviour in any way by being in Johnny Rotten mode? I'm not putting all the blame on him by any means, but, especially back then, he was a button-pusher.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:28pm
I think you're right, John always carried a bit of resentment about how he'd been treated there and also his mother before him, vaguely recall some talk about that in his book. The original story of his arrest makes for interesting reading, the barman refused to serve him because he looked "very seedy"!! Truth was being a punk in Dublin in late 70s/early 80s was akin to being a Traveller or any other persecuted minority. I supped in the Horse & Tram pub many a time, actually a very decent watering hole and sadly no more, like most of my favourite old haunts.
https://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/I ... ele80.html
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 5026
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Public Image Limited
I can definitely picture Jack Blacks character refusing to serve a customer because he thought they looked "very seedy."Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 7:16pmSo they were jaded record shop clerks (see Jack Black's character in High Fidelity).Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 7:04pmYeah, i mean the only thing I can say with conviction here is that not all but a lot of barmen back then could be real assholes. If they didn't like the cut of your jib, too bad, you weren't getting served and being a punk at that time in Ireland was pretty much automatic refusal in a lot of places. My instinct is to be with John on this one.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:49pmThat's more or less my guess. Asshole barman acts like an asshole and Lydon pushes back. And good on him if he was basically justifying his existence to this guy.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:45pmReasonable question and it's impossible to know but my suspicion is that the barman simply took one look at these guys swanning into his establishment and instinctively decided no fuckin way i'm serving this trash and Johnnys belligerence took it from there. That's what fits my idea (and vague recollection) of that era Ireland anyway.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:39pm
I also wonder what JL's attitude was there that night. Was he acting the diva that night? Which is to say, did he encourage the barman's surly behaviour in any way by being in Johnny Rotten mode? I'm not putting all the blame on him by any means, but, especially back then, he was a button-pusher.
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 59038
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: Public Image Limited
Jack Blacks character actually looked way seedier than the customers.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 7:27pmI can definitely picture Jack Blacks character refusing to serve a customer because he thought they looked "very seedy."Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 7:16pmSo they were jaded record shop clerks (see Jack Black's character in High Fidelity).Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 7:04pmYeah, i mean the only thing I can say with conviction here is that not all but a lot of barmen back then could be real assholes. If they didn't like the cut of your jib, too bad, you weren't getting served and being a punk at that time in Ireland was pretty much automatic refusal in a lot of places. My instinct is to be with John on this one.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:49pmThat's more or less my guess. Asshole barman acts like an asshole and Lydon pushes back. And good on him if he was basically justifying his existence to this guy.Low Down Low wrote: ↑04 Feb 2023, 6:45pm
Reasonable question and it's impossible to know but my suspicion is that the barman simply took one look at these guys swanning into his establishment and instinctively decided no fuckin way i'm serving this trash and Johnnys belligerence took it from there. That's what fits my idea (and vague recollection) of that era Ireland anyway.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia