The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

[Guest1]

Hot take: Flowers of Romance is the best PIL album.

[Marky Dread]

Hot take: Flowers of Romance is the best PIL album.

Metal Box.

[Dr. Medulla]

Hot take: Flowers of Romance is the best PIL album.

Metal Box.

Hard to argue this. It still sounds like nothing else.

[Marky Dread]

Hot take: Flowers of Romance is the best PIL album.

Metal Box.

Hard to argue this. It still sounds like nothing else.

Yep incredible record. "Flowers of Romance" is also great but for different reasons. Mainly because of it's inventiveness against adversity.

[Dr. Medulla]

Hot take: Flowers of Romance is the best PIL album.

Metal Box.

Hard to argue this. It still sounds like nothing else.

Yep incredible record. "Flowers of Romance" is also great but for different reasons. Mainly because of it's inventiveness against adversity.

FoR suffers (slightly, mind you) in comparison because the "tribal" or Burundi drum thing was being explored by others at the time (amusingly, including McLaren). It makes the album less adventurous compared to the "what the hell is this?" of MB. MB was the third PiL record I heard (after Album and TIWYW) and my ears were wholly unprepared for that.

[Marky Dread]

Hot take: Flowers of Romance is the best PIL album.

Metal Box.

Hard to argue this. It still sounds like nothing else.

Yep incredible record. "Flowers of Romance" is also great but for different reasons. Mainly because of it's inventiveness against adversity.

FoR suffers (slightly, mind you) in comparison because the "tribal" or Burundi drum thing was being explored by others at the time (amusingly, including McLaren). It makes the album less adventurous compared to the "what the hell is this?" of MB. MB was the third PiL record I heard (after Album and TIWYW) and my ears were wholly unprepared for that.

Strange order to hear those records for sure.

There is not any Burundi drumming on FoR although due to it's heavy percussive nature I can see why you think that. I think Atkins plays on three tracks. Lydon and Levene are responsible for the percussive sounds on the remaining tracks. On one track it's Atkins and Levene banging something.

Still three tracks from the sessions remain unreleased.

Woodnymphs
Twist and Shout
Johnny Remember Me

The last two being piss takes. Atkins has them on tape.

[Dr. Medulla]

Strange order to hear those records for sure.

Album (Cassette, if you want to be specific) was the record that got me on this other path. And then I quickly found a used copy of TIWYW. Then, after reading about it, I ordered a copy of Second Edition. I think I next found a used (but still pricey) copy of First Issue. With the exception of Theme, that was much easier to comprehend.

There is not any Burundi drumming on FoR although due to it's heavy percussive nature I can see why you think that. I think Atkins plays on three tracks. Lydon and Levene are responsible for the percussive sounds on the remaining tracks. On one track it's Atkins and Levene banging something.

But it's all groupable with other "tribal" percussion albums of the same period (e.g., Bow Wow Wow, Adam & the Ants). My point is only that the approach wasn't singular as with MB. That percussive approach was in the wind.

[Marky Dread]

Strange order to hear those records for sure.

Album (Cassette, if you want to be specific) was the record that got me on this other path. And then I quickly found a used copy of TIWYW. Then, after reading about it, I ordered a copy of Second Edition. I think I next found a used (but still pricey) copy of First Issue. With the exception of Theme, that was much easier to comprehend.

There is not any Burundi drumming on FoR although due to it's heavy percussive nature I can see why you think that. I think Atkins plays on three tracks. Lydon and Levene are responsible for the percussive sounds on the remaining tracks. On one track it's Atkins and Levene banging something.

But it's all groupable with other "tribal" percussion albums of the same period (e.g., Bow Wow Wow, Adam & the Ants). My point is only that the approach wasn't singular as with MB. That percussive approach was in the wind.

Tribal most definitely. But not because of the Burundi beat.

There was an album called "Musique du Burundi" released in 1967 that a sample was taken from. A single called "Burundi Black" was a hit here in 1971.

Malcolm gave this single/idea to Adam Ant who then had hits with that sound. The original Ants that went on to form Bowwowwow with Annabella also used the same formula.

The Flowers of Romance album was only percussive because of musical limitations. None of the percussion used followed the blueprint of the Burundi sound. PiL were percussive out of necessity but not by design.

[Wolter]

I have to join the Metal Box bandwagon.

[Dr. Medulla]

Strange order to hear those records for sure.

Album (Cassette, if you want to be specific) was the record that got me on this other path. And then I quickly found a used copy of TIWYW. Then, after reading about it, I ordered a copy of Second Edition. I think I next found a used (but still pricey) copy of First Issue. With the exception of Theme, that was much easier to comprehend.

There is not any Burundi drumming on FoR although due to it's heavy percussive nature I can see why you think that. I think Atkins plays on three tracks. Lydon and Levene are responsible for the percussive sounds on the remaining tracks. On one track it's Atkins and Levene banging something.

But it's all groupable with other "tribal" percussion albums of the same period (e.g., Bow Wow Wow, Adam & the Ants). My point is only that the approach wasn't singular as with MB. That percussive approach was in the wind.

Tribal most definitely. But not because of the Burundi beat.

There was an album called "Musique du Burundi" released in 1967 that a sample was taken from. A single called "Burundi Black" was a hit here in 1971.

Malcolm gave this single/idea to Adam Ant who then had hits with that sound. The original Ants that went on to form Bowwowwow with Annabella also used the same formula.

The Flowers of Romance album was only percussive because of musical limitations. None of the percussion used followed the blueprint of the Burundi sound. PiL were percussive out of necessity but not by design.

Whether it was intentional or not, Burundi or not, isn't my argument, tho. You're coming at it from a production side, whereas I'm coming at it from a consumption side. The reason why FoR isn't as striking—to me—is that there were other artists playing in the same general sandbox. That's all. If my terminology is off in describing things, mea culpa, and not for the last time, I'm certain!

[Marky Dread]

Strange order to hear those records for sure.

Album (Cassette, if you want to be specific) was the record that got me on this other path. And then I quickly found a used copy of TIWYW. Then, after reading about it, I ordered a copy of Second Edition. I think I next found a used (but still pricey) copy of First Issue. With the exception of Theme, that was much easier to comprehend.

There is not any Burundi drumming on FoR although due to it's heavy percussive nature I can see why you think that. I think Atkins plays on three tracks. Lydon and Levene are responsible for the percussive sounds on the remaining tracks. On one track it's Atkins and Levene banging something.

But it's all groupable with other "tribal" percussion albums of the same period (e.g., Bow Wow Wow, Adam & the Ants). My point is only that the approach wasn't singular as with MB. That percussive approach was in the wind.

Tribal most definitely. But not because of the Burundi beat.

There was an album called "Musique du Burundi" released in 1967 that a sample was taken from. A single called "Burundi Black" was a hit here in 1971.

Malcolm gave this single/idea to Adam Ant who then had hits with that sound. The original Ants that went on to form Bowwowwow with Annabella also used the same formula.

The Flowers of Romance album was only percussive because of musical limitations. None of the percussion used followed the blueprint of the Burundi sound. PiL were percussive out of necessity but not by design.

Whether it was intentional or not, Burundi or not, isn't my argument, tho. You're coming at it from a production side, whereas I'm coming at it from a consumption side. The reason why FoR isn't as striking—to me—is that there were other artists playing in the same general sandbox. That's all. If my terminology is off in describing things, mea culpa, and not for the last time, I'm certain!

Oh I get totally what you're saying. But with the Ants and Bowwowwow it was aimed at a pop market. Although hits were necessary for PiL to survive financially I doubt pop is what they had in mind for FoR.

But yes your primary argument being MB Vs FoR then I side very firmly with your view.

[Dr. Medulla]

Oh I get totally what you're saying. But with the Ants and Bowwowwow it was aimed at a pop market. Although hits were necessary for PiL to survive financially I doubt pop is what they had in mind for FoR.

Right. They made it listener friendly, whereas PiL was not interested at all in appealing to the average listener. For a group that proclaimed itself a company and not a band (however satirically), they had a pretty dubious business model!

[Marky Dread]

Oh I get totally what you're saying. But with the Ants and Bowwowwow it was aimed at a pop market. Although hits were necessary for PiL to survive financially I doubt pop is what they had in mind for FoR.

Right. They made it listener friendly, whereas PiL was not interested at all in appealing to the average listener. For a group that proclaimed itself a company and not a band (however satirically), they had a pretty dubious business model!

Never thought about that before. But yes that assessment of the PiL business acumen is spot on.

[Silent Majority]

This Is Not A Love Song is the sound of the company righting itself in its quest for profit, having axed some eccentric junior vice presidents.

[Wolter]

This Is Not A Love Song is the sound of the company righting itself in its quest for profit, having axed some eccentric junior vice presidents.

Then they downsized, hired some independent contractors, saw a brief stock surge with Album before steadily declining as a market force outside of the notoriously unstable American college radio market before imploding.