The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

General music discussion.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

gkbill wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:33pm
The removal of the physical handling of the item (record, cd) is the removal of a sense. Listening becomes only auditory - you don't hold the record or cd, you don't read the linear notes (okay, you could read them online...). I'll grant you the physical senses involved are involved minimally but are there nonetheless. Good music incorporates the physical senses - that's why we dance!
Does holding an iPod/phone or clicking a mouse not count as physicality?
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:50pm
LOL, I have no idea who these people are that Im in company with but Im guessing I wouldn't like them.
No, you wouldn't. Reynolds is a prominent music writer—fairly well respected, but I find him pompous. Adorno is what of the most important cultural theorists of the 20th century, but someone who could never be disappointed enough in other human beings tastes.
In the end Im not speaking in black and white terms. And I dont want to assign a pure $ value to the music/art either but for lack of a better term there are things that people value and no you don't need to scour the earth or spend crazy sums of money to find the value in something but generally speaking I think when people come by something easily it tends to have less value. Deja vu but Im pretty sure we've gone back n forth on this before

I think you get where Im going with this and Im falling asleep as Im trying to type this. Again I dont normally get into extended discussions on here because I hate typing so damn much.
Nah, it's all good. I enjoy these kinds of questions. It's the kind of thing I try to drag my students into because I'm especially fascinated by the role of distribution in cultural matters. Most cultural studies people emphasize production or consumption, but not as much on what changing media or other aspects of delivery does.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

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Flex wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:29pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 7:05pm
I'm utilitarian, not a romantic, so whatever works.
i'm digital streaming on the streets, physical media in the sheets... ladies
They want an lp, not a cassette. :shifty:
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 9:09pm
Where can I hear this Argentinian remix of White Riot?
It's rubbish. I remixed it and now it sounds even worse. ;)
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by gkbill »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 6:31am
gkbill wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:33pm
The removal of the physical handling of the item (record, cd) is the removal of a sense. Listening becomes only auditory - you don't hold the record or cd, you don't read the linear notes (okay, you could read them online...). I'll grant you the physical senses involved are involved minimally but are there nonetheless. Good music incorporates the physical senses - that's why we dance!
Does holding an iPod/phone or clicking a mouse not count as physicality?
Hello,

A click and you're done. You don't fondle the mouse while you're listening (at least, I hope not!). That physical contact is not as engaging.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by gkbill »

gkbill wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 6:31am
gkbill wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:33pm
The removal of the physical handling of the item (record, cd) is the removal of a sense. Listening becomes only auditory - you don't hold the record or cd, you don't read the linear notes (okay, you could read them online...). I'll grant you the physical senses involved are involved minimally but are there nonetheless. Good music incorporates the physical senses - that's why we dance!
Does holding an iPod/phone or clicking a mouse not count as physicality?
Hello,

A click and you're done. You don't fondle the mouse while you're listening (at least, I hope not!). That physical contact is not as engaging.

No one else got "Marxist grouch"? Shame.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Wolter »

I used to be a physical media proponent, but as I’ve gotten older and so many things I love have been easier to find as digital copies (whether legally or not), I have moved far closer to Doc’s viewpoint. Physical is nice to have in the case of a drive crash, but like him I’m fine with DVR backups that take up less space. I’m also not that picky about sound above a certain level of quality.

EDIT: and in the case of artwork? Honestly, unless there are very informative liner notes, most music releases aren’t that great on that front.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

gkbill wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 6:31am
gkbill wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:33pm
The removal of the physical handling of the item (record, cd) is the removal of a sense. Listening becomes only auditory - you don't hold the record or cd, you don't read the linear notes (okay, you could read them online...). I'll grant you the physical senses involved are involved minimally but are there nonetheless. Good music incorporates the physical senses - that's why we dance!
Does holding an iPod/phone or clicking a mouse not count as physicality?
Hello,

A click and you're done. You don't fondle the mouse while you're listening (at least, I hope not!). That physical contact is not as engaging.
Pop the disc in the player and you're done. Again, I'm not meaning to disparage anyone here, but I'm having a hard time seeing the great distinction of physicality here.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by matedog »

I'm reluctant to dump my cd collection mostly because with streaming services, things can just go away. Perhaps it's safe to dump my really mainstream stuff that will likely not go away (ACDC, Stones, the like).
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Wolter »

matedog wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:35pm
I'm reluctant to dump my cd collection mostly because with streaming services, things can just go away. Perhaps it's safe to dump my really mainstream stuff that will likely not go away (ACDC, Stones, the like).
My big thing is I either want a physical copy or a safely backed up electronic copy not on a cloud for this reason. Streaming can end at any time.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Flex »

i still love physical media, but there's not really a rational reason for it. It's a hobby. Yeah, I like to sort through a stack of CDs more than scrolling through a list of digital albums, but that's a pretty quirky preference, there's not an authoritative argument for why that's better or something. I get various pleasures (and frustrations) from it the way I would with any non-utilitarian hobby, like watching sports or collecting stamps or whatever. I actually sort of think outside of participating in physical activity, from a strictly rational perspective there aren't that many hobbies or activities that aren't at least theoretically improved and streamlined by going digital, but people still like to do 'em in an analog way. Even if its not music, probably everyone has something in their life that strictly speaking they could migrate purely into the digital realm but don't want to because there's some slightly unquantifiable pleasure that comes from having that connection in the meat-space.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:35pm
I'm reluctant to dump my cd collection mostly because with streaming services, things can just go away. Perhaps it's safe to dump my really mainstream stuff that will likely not go away (ACDC, Stones, the like).
That's why all my music is backed up on several hundred dvd-r's, stored in a box in the basement. I assume hard drive failure and all that.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:45pm
matedog wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:35pm
I'm reluctant to dump my cd collection mostly because with streaming services, things can just go away. Perhaps it's safe to dump my really mainstream stuff that will likely not go away (ACDC, Stones, the like).
That's why all my music is backed up on several hundred dvd-r's, stored in a box in the basement. I assume hard drive failure and all that.
Which still takes up way less space. I'll have to get around to that if I ever pull the trigger on it.

My vinyl phase was funny because it was a solid 5 years and I have a bunch of random albums that came out between 2008-2013 that I would not have bought otherwise, but I really wanted to build up my vinyl collection.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by gkbill »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:33pm
gkbill wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 6:31am
gkbill wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:33pm
The removal of the physical handling of the item (record, cd) is the removal of a sense. Listening becomes only auditory - you don't hold the record or cd, you don't read the linear notes (okay, you could read them online...). I'll grant you the physical senses involved are involved minimally but are there nonetheless. Good music incorporates the physical senses - that's why we dance!
Does holding an iPod/phone or clicking a mouse not count as physicality?
Hello,

A click and you're done. You don't fondle the mouse while you're listening (at least, I hope not!). That physical contact is not as engaging.
Pop the disc in the player and you're done. Again, I'm not meaning to disparage anyone here, but I'm having a hard time seeing the great distinction of physicality here.
Hello,

There's the disc case as well as the cd version of liner notes.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Flex wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:44pm
i still love physical media, but there's not really a rational reason for it. It's a hobby. Yeah, I like to sort through a stack of CDs more than scrolling through a list of digital albums, but that's a pretty quirky preference, there's not an authoritative argument for why that's better or something. I get various pleasures (and frustrations) from it the way I would with any non-utilitarian hobby, like watching sports or collecting stamps or whatever. I actually sort of think outside of participating in physical activity, from a strictly rational perspective there aren't that many hobbies or activities that aren't at least theoretically improved and streamlined by going digital, but people still like to do 'em in an analog way. Even if its not music, probably everyone has something in their life that strictly speaking they could migrate purely into the digital realm but don't want to because there's some slightly unquantifiable pleasure that comes from having that connection in the meat-space.
Humans are, by and large, tactile. I think that as our lives become more digital, tactile pleasures perhaps take on more value since a big part of our biology is being denied.There's a sort of mythical or alchemical, as you said before, quality about going to the record store, finding an item, bringing it home while looking at the cover and getting more excited about what it sounds like, putting it in the tray or on the table, listening while reading the notes or lyrics. Not everyone enjoys this, obviously, but the process is a big part of the hobby for a lot of people. The availability of endless digital files corrupts this for me at least, and I do believe that as music leaves the realm of the physical, a lot of people begin to view it as not really "real" since it can't be held, and therefore not deserving of payment to the artist. If artists were somehow subsidized this wouldn't be an issue, but we all know bands break up when they can't pay their rent. I don't think we can deny that's happened, whatever the actual root reason may be.
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