The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

General music discussion.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

gkbill wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 1:54pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:33pm
gkbill wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 6:31am
gkbill wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 10:33pm
The removal of the physical handling of the item (record, cd) is the removal of a sense. Listening becomes only auditory - you don't hold the record or cd, you don't read the linear notes (okay, you could read them online...). I'll grant you the physical senses involved are involved minimally but are there nonetheless. Good music incorporates the physical senses - that's why we dance!
Does holding an iPod/phone or clicking a mouse not count as physicality?
Hello,

A click and you're done. You don't fondle the mouse while you're listening (at least, I hope not!). That physical contact is not as engaging.
Pop the disc in the player and you're done. Again, I'm not meaning to disparage anyone here, but I'm having a hard time seeing the great distinction of physicality here.
Hello,

There's the disc case as well as the cd version of liner notes.
In one case, plastic is plastic. In the case of liner notes, that's the paper vs. ebook distinction, I guess. For people who can only read paper books, I guess you need that booklet or sleeve.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by WestwayKid »

I've gone back and forth on this and I'm finding I'm less and less attached to the physical aspect of listening to music. I do enjoy a well packaged CD, box set, or LP, but that enjoyment has no connection to my enjoyment of the music. I've converted all of my CD's to digital and have them stored on hard drives and in the cloud. New music is nearly always digital. I think about how I used to carry around my iPods and I don't even do that anymore. I listen to Spotify on my phone.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Wolter »

Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:30pm
Flex wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 12:44pm
i still love physical media, but there's not really a rational reason for it. It's a hobby. Yeah, I like to sort through a stack of CDs more than scrolling through a list of digital albums, but that's a pretty quirky preference, there's not an authoritative argument for why that's better or something. I get various pleasures (and frustrations) from it the way I would with any non-utilitarian hobby, like watching sports or collecting stamps or whatever. I actually sort of think outside of participating in physical activity, from a strictly rational perspective there aren't that many hobbies or activities that aren't at least theoretically improved and streamlined by going digital, but people still like to do 'em in an analog way. Even if its not music, probably everyone has something in their life that strictly speaking they could migrate purely into the digital realm but don't want to because there's some slightly unquantifiable pleasure that comes from having that connection in the meat-space.
Humans are, by and large, tactile. I think that as our lives become more digital, tactile pleasures perhaps take on more value since a big part of our biology is being denied.There's a sort of mythical or alchemical, as you said before, quality about going to the record store, finding an item, bringing it home while looking at the cover and getting more excited about what it sounds like, putting it in the tray or on the table, listening while reading the notes or lyrics. Not everyone enjoys this, obviously, but the process is a big part of the hobby for a lot of people. The availability of endless digital files corrupts this for me at least, and I do believe that as music leaves the realm of the physical, a lot of people begin to view it as not really "real" since it can't be held, and therefore not deserving of payment to the artist. If artists were somehow subsidized this wouldn't be an issue, but we all know bands break up when they can't pay their rent. I don't think we can deny that's happened, whatever the actual root reason may be.
I mean, people have pretty much always screwed visual artists even before digital copying made it easier, so I think that’s more a problem looking for an excuse.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:30pm
I do believe that as music leaves the realm of the physical, a lot of people begin to view it as not really "real" since it can't be held, and therefore not deserving of payment to the artist. If artists were somehow subsidized this wouldn't be an issue, but we all know bands break up when they can't pay their rent. I don't think we can deny that's happened, whatever the actual root reason may be.
This takes it in a whole new direction, but we could argue that digitization and the virtual, because they are so easy to pirate, could rescue music from commercialism and the profit motive. If you can't make money from music, it would cease to be a commodity and could become an art form that was genuinely revolutionary. The idea of making a living from music would be a non-starter, so the people who make music would do so for non-commercial reasons. So if you're thinking about a post-capitalist world, virtual potentially helps that along by making music no longer feasible to generate money. (Not saying I necessarily endorse that, only that that's the argument.)
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Flex wrote:
14 Sep 2020, 8:05pm
Yeah, in an absolute sense the dynamic range capabilities of digital outstrips analog (and, as you say, jazz and especially classical are usually mastered to take full advantage) but in practice how often does that happen, especially with rock? My understanding is that albums with DR of like under 7 need to be specifically mastered for vinyl so the stylus can track and so you can end up with "loudness war" albums being slightly remastered for vinyl with better dynamic range than what was put out on CD.
I agree on rock's dynamic range, but that's where my dislike of the "warmth" comes into play and gives CDs the edge. I'm definitely not a fan of the loudness wars, obviously, but its not as bad as it was. I think there was a fair amount of backlash that caused the industry to rethink releasing albums that were pushed to the point of actual digital distortion. I find more recently that if I have an issue with a remaster, it's because of an incompetent engineer rather than intentional brickwalling (see the 2-disc Buzzcocks remasters). Of course, I'm not listening to every new release or anything.
As to pops, hiss and crackle, yeah that can make the record sound worse but so can a skip-causing scratch on CD. I have a bunch of CDs from high school that won't rip or play cleanly because they're too beat to shit.
Well yeah, it's up to the owner of the media to take care of it whether it's vinyl or CD. I don't think I've had to buff more than 2 or 3 CDs in 25 years of collecting. At least with a CD, it either plays or it doesn't. You don't get a bunch of artifacts in the background, muddying up the sound.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:44pm
Well yeah, it's up to the owner of the media to take care of it whether it's vinyl or CD. I don't think I've had to buff more than 2 or 3 CDs in 25 years of collecting. At least with a CD, it either plays or it doesn't. You don't get a bunch of artifacts in the background, muddying up the sound.
The sound of skipping or popping vinyl is annoying. A stuck cd is the kind of sound used in Bulgarian torture chambers.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:46pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:44pm
Well yeah, it's up to the owner of the media to take care of it whether it's vinyl or CD. I don't think I've had to buff more than 2 or 3 CDs in 25 years of collecting. At least with a CD, it either plays or it doesn't. You don't get a bunch of artifacts in the background, muddying up the sound.
The sound of skipping or popping vinyl is annoying. A stuck cd is the kind of sound used in Bulgarian torture chambers.
I agree it sucks, but it's not enough for me personally to switch to vinyl. I'd rather have to replace a disc than listen to all that crap behind the music.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 3:53pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:46pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:44pm
Well yeah, it's up to the owner of the media to take care of it whether it's vinyl or CD. I don't think I've had to buff more than 2 or 3 CDs in 25 years of collecting. At least with a CD, it either plays or it doesn't. You don't get a bunch of artifacts in the background, muddying up the sound.
The sound of skipping or popping vinyl is annoying. A stuck cd is the kind of sound used in Bulgarian torture chambers.
I agree it sucks, but it's not enough for me personally to switch to vinyl. I'd rather have to replace a disc than listen to all that crap behind the music.
Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Marky Dread
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:08pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 3:53pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:46pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:44pm
Well yeah, it's up to the owner of the media to take care of it whether it's vinyl or CD. I don't think I've had to buff more than 2 or 3 CDs in 25 years of collecting. At least with a CD, it either plays or it doesn't. You don't get a bunch of artifacts in the background, muddying up the sound.
The sound of skipping or popping vinyl is annoying. A stuck cd is the kind of sound used in Bulgarian torture chambers.
I agree it sucks, but it's not enough for me personally to switch to vinyl. I'd rather have to replace a disc than listen to all that crap behind the music.
Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
I agree and virtually all my CDs are great. ;)
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:08pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 3:53pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:46pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:44pm
Well yeah, it's up to the owner of the media to take care of it whether it's vinyl or CD. I don't think I've had to buff more than 2 or 3 CDs in 25 years of collecting. At least with a CD, it either plays or it doesn't. You don't get a bunch of artifacts in the background, muddying up the sound.
The sound of skipping or popping vinyl is annoying. A stuck cd is the kind of sound used in Bulgarian torture chambers.
I agree it sucks, but it's not enough for me personally to switch to vinyl. I'd rather have to replace a disc than listen to all that crap behind the music.
Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
If you take care of your CDs, they'll take care of you.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:08pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 3:53pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:46pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:44pm
Well yeah, it's up to the owner of the media to take care of it whether it's vinyl or CD. I don't think I've had to buff more than 2 or 3 CDs in 25 years of collecting. At least with a CD, it either plays or it doesn't. You don't get a bunch of artifacts in the background, muddying up the sound.
The sound of skipping or popping vinyl is annoying. A stuck cd is the kind of sound used in Bulgarian torture chambers.
I agree it sucks, but it's not enough for me personally to switch to vinyl. I'd rather have to replace a disc than listen to all that crap behind the music.
Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
If you take care of your CDs, they'll take care of you.
That's naive. CDs are selfish bastards who'll cut you the moment you show weakness.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Kory
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:52pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:08pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 3:53pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 2:46pm


The sound of skipping or popping vinyl is annoying. A stuck cd is the kind of sound used in Bulgarian torture chambers.
I agree it sucks, but it's not enough for me personally to switch to vinyl. I'd rather have to replace a disc than listen to all that crap behind the music.
Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
If you take care of your CDs, they'll take care of you.
That's naive. CDs are selfish bastards who'll cut you the moment you show weakness.
That's only discs from one's Oi! collection.
WWK: I feel confident we haven't heard the last from Dr. Harvey Camel.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 5:08pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:52pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:08pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 3:53pm


I agree it sucks, but it's not enough for me personally to switch to vinyl. I'd rather have to replace a disc than listen to all that crap behind the music.
Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
If you take care of your CDs, they'll take care of you.
That's naive. CDs are selfish bastards who'll cut you the moment you show weakness.
That's only discs from one's Oi! collection.
Grossly untrue. Knew a guy who some kind of special edition of Rattle and Hum. He goes to do his dusting and stuff so he turns his back. Long story short, he's dead.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Kory
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 5:12pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 5:08pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:52pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:08pm

Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
If you take care of your CDs, they'll take care of you.
That's naive. CDs are selfish bastards who'll cut you the moment you show weakness.
That's only discs from one's Oi! collection.
Grossly untrue. Knew a guy who some kind of special edition of Rattle and Hum. He goes to do his dusting and stuff so he turns his back. Long story short, he's dead.
That's just cosmic justice for liking U2.
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revbob
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 5:12pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 5:08pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:52pm
Kory wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 4:08pm

Switching to virtual solves all that. :shifty:
If you take care of your CDs, they'll take care of you.
That's naive. CDs are selfish bastards who'll cut you the moment you show weakness.
That's only discs from one's Oi! collection.
Grossly untrue. Knew a guy who some kind of special edition of Rattle and Hum. He goes to do his dusting and stuff so he turns his back. Long story short, he's dead.
I first read that as Rattie and Hum and well fuck Bono and U2 .

Yeah I know its not even 6 yet.

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