The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
- 101Walterton
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
For once ‘can’t it be both’ is most apt for me
- Marky Dread
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
Whilst I prefer Cyndi all day long. Maddie has released far stronger material for a much longer time.
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- WestwayKid
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
I think it's important to remember how BIG she was. For close to a decade, Madonna was more than a singer - she was a cultural icon. I know we're considering music right here, but that does impact how I view her career.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 7:38amWhilst I prefer Cyndi all day long. Maddie has released far stronger material for a much longer time.
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- Marky Dread
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
The 80s Cyndi tracks are great but after that I've little interest. Maddie comes up with a good track every now and again.WestwayKid wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 8:10amI think it's important to remember how BIG she was. For close to a decade, Madonna was more than a singer - she was a cultural icon. I know we're considering music right here, but that does impact how I view her career.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 7:38amWhilst I prefer Cyndi all day long. Maddie has released far stronger material for a much longer time.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- WestwayKid
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
I'm inspired to put on some Madonna this morning. Her run of singles in the early-to-mid 80's was impressive and hearing many of those songs really takes me back because they were all over the radio and MTV back then.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 8:43amThe 80s Cyndi tracks are great but after that I've little interest. Maddie comes up with a good track every now and again.WestwayKid wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 8:10amI think it's important to remember how BIG she was. For close to a decade, Madonna was more than a singer - she was a cultural icon. I know we're considering music right here, but that does impact how I view her career.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 7:38amWhilst I prefer Cyndi all day long. Maddie has released far stronger material for a much longer time.
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- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
And that, I think, is what skews assessment of the music. She became a force well beyond her records, an object of diverse interpretation, and so the music took on greater significance than its quality in and of itself. A social pressure to accept that a new Madonna record must be important and great because she was a top celebrity. That's not to suggest false consciousness or anything like that, only that hype does mess with us, whether to look for reasons to love something or hate it.WestwayKid wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 8:10amI think it's important to remember how BIG she was. For close to a decade, Madonna was more than a singer - she was a cultural icon. I know we're considering music right here, but that does impact how I view her career.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 7:38amWhilst I prefer Cyndi all day long. Maddie has released far stronger material for a much longer time.
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- Heston
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
Icon or not, I just prefer her music by a mile.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- WestwayKid
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
That's a good and valid point. The albums that she released in the 80's (Madonna, Like a Virgin, True Blue, Like a Prayer) all consistently get high marks from music review sites (AllMusic, Blender, Pitchfork, etc). They are all highly crafted pop records, created by some very talented people, but I agree that her place as a cultural icon has skewed the assessment of her music. I'd argue that as her cultural significance has waned that the critical assessment of her music has also waned. Would an album like Madame X had gotten better reviews in 1989 versus 2019? I'd think so.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 9:35amAnd that, I think, is what skews assessment of the music. She became a force well beyond her records, an object of diverse interpretation, and so the music took on greater significance than its quality in and of itself. A social pressure to accept that a new Madonna record must be important and great because she was a top celebrity. That's not to suggest false consciousness or anything like that, only that hype does mess with us, whether to look for reasons to love something or hate it.WestwayKid wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 8:10amI think it's important to remember how BIG she was. For close to a decade, Madonna was more than a singer - she was a cultural icon. I know we're considering music right here, but that does impact how I view her career.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 7:38amWhilst I prefer Cyndi all day long. Maddie has released far stronger material for a much longer time.
I remember the first time I heard a Madonna song. It was "Borderline" and I heard it on MTV. I was only 7, but even then I remember thinking she had an annoying voice, but also being kind of entranced by the video.
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- WestwayKid
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
It's most definitely great pop music.
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
What's with the lauper vs Madonna dividing line in the first place? I know they sort of served different constituencies for a time, but were they viewed as rivals back then or something?
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
I can't say whether the media spun them as rivals, but I remember—and Jen can confirm—that at school there was a division between the Madonna fans and the Cyndi fans. Madonna was for the status kids—the in crowd, the rich—while Cyndi was for the weirdos and more ardent individualists.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
I suspect so. Or it'd be trashed by contrary critics taking a stand against her media image. That's double-edged sword of her self-promotion—she forced critics to take bold stands on what they thought she represented, and figured out how the music fit in with that. The Beatles did the same thing. Hard to consider the Sex Pistols divorced from their notoriety (and, tellingly, when considering the music alone, more than a few conclude that Bollocks is more of a hard rock record than punk, the way other punk bands sounded).WestwayKid wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 9:56amI'd argue that as her cultural significance has waned that the critical assessment of her music has also waned. Would an album like Madame X had gotten better reviews in 1989 versus 2019? I'd think so.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- WestwayKid
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
Which culminated with "Erotica" and "Sex" in the early 90's. She crossed the line from being provocative to being boorish. "Like a Prayer" was provocative (and a great song), but her book was over-hyped and ridiculous.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 10:14amI suspect so. Or it'd be trashed by contrary critics taking a stand against her media image. That's double-edged sword of her self-promotion—she forced critics to take bold stands on what they thought she represented, and figured out how the music fit in with that. The Beatles did the same thing. Hard to consider the Sex Pistols divorced from their notoriety (and, tellingly, when considering the music alone, more than a few conclude that Bollocks is more of a hard rock record than punk, the way other punk bands sounded).WestwayKid wrote: ↑14 Nov 2019, 9:56amI'd argue that as her cultural significance has waned that the critical assessment of her music has also waned. Would an album like Madame X had gotten better reviews in 1989 versus 2019? I'd think so.
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- Marky Dread
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Re: The Great Thread of YouTube Magnificence!
In all honesty it all seemed like pretty decent pop music to me. While Doc highlighting the goddamn awful cover of "American Pie" only really illustrates what a great run of singles Maddie has had. I'm only really familiar with Cyndi's stuff from the 80s which is great I'm sure she's had a few turkeys also.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia